Stu Peters Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: You "think" it includes extraction? As an elected representative and a supporter of this scheme shouldn't you know exactly what the licence includes and allows? I've not been privy to discussions on the licence, and haven't asked Crogga to divulge them. My support of their scheme is philosophical, and based on what I HAVE been told. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Not sure what all the fuss is about , gas is now green as is nuclear. https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/eu-parliament-vote-green-gas-nuclear-rules-2022-07-06/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Stu Peters said: I've not been privy to discussions on the licence, and haven't asked Crogga to divulge them. My support of their scheme is philosophical, and based on what I HAVE been told. I find this rather shocking and it is not a personal attack on you. What you are saying is that we have at least one, if not more, elected representatives that are voting on an issue when not in possession of the full facts? This is a discussion where the facts should be clearly set out in the licence agreement. This increasingly sounds like another back room deal with brown envelopes involved. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) Start saving your pennies for future energy increases. This summers heat wave is going to have serious impact on energy costs even before the winter has begun. QT Rising temperatures will hinder Europe’s ability to rebuild its gas inventories ahead of winter, Rystad Energy said in a note. European storage levels have improved since March but remain below normal for this time of year. “Our updated scenarios show that Europe will probably be heading into the storm much earlier than previously thought -- and that the region will be under-prepared for the chaos it will bring,” it said. UNQT Edited July 21, 2022 by Mann O Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 46 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I find this rather shocking and it is not a personal attack on you. What you are saying is that we have at least one, if not more, elected representatives that are voting on an issue when not in possession of the full facts? This is a discussion where the facts should be clearly set out in the licence agreement. This increasingly sounds like another back room deal with brown envelopes involved. Were there papers? Was it researched before the debate? That EU ruling is highly apropos. For such an important and fundamental issue, I would have preferred if it was not viewed as a sop to chuck at the Greenies, but something fully researched first, particularly in light of the Crogga licence and that EU decision. What we have done is effectively precluded exploiting a source of fuel considered green by the EU. Of course the EU decision may be overturned and the Crogga licence may have belt and braces the right to extract if there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: I find this rather shocking and it is not a personal attack on you. But your initial comment was though, wasn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 52 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: But your initial comment was though, wasn't it? Which bit of: Quote You "think" it includes extraction? As an elected representative and a supporter of this scheme shouldn't you know exactly what the licence includes and allows? is a personal attack? Bloody snowflakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: I find this rather shocking and it is not a personal attack on you. What you are saying is that we have at least one, if not more, elected representatives that are voting on an issue when not in possession of the full facts? This is a discussion where the facts should be clearly set out in the licence agreement. This increasingly sounds like another back room deal with brown envelopes involved. Genuine question : do they still make brown envelopes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: Genuine question : do they still make brown envelopes? They're envelopes of colour these days. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) . Edited July 22, 2022 by 0bserver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Gender neutral envelopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: But your initial comment was though, wasn't it? Well it was a bit, but the underlying problem isn't really about Stu (who, let's face it, isn't famous for his in-depth research) but about the system. Far too many politicians are happy to accept whatever they are told at face value - they think due diligence is saying "Is this OK?" and then nodding stuff through, so Stu is only following that lead. More important the system itself with its pointless and sometimes even illegal secrecy encourages this. Anyone who starts asking questions has usually been branded a troublemaker and commercial confidentiality and so on are produced to hide anything embarrassing. Presumably in this case they are told that the terms of the licence "can't" be disclosed. The ministerial etc codes and standing orders and so on are all written to reinforce this system where politicians are seen are the necessary but minor fronts for the people making the real decisions - the civil servants and their chums. And certainly in the past most politicians have been happy to go along with this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Colective responcibility if I (chief minister) make a fucked up decision, we all made that fucked up decision. Even if you knew nothing about it. Tarred with the same blame brush, springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, HeliX said: Which bit of: is a personal attack? Bloody snowflakes. I can assure you I am very far from being a snowflake. The first post was clearly aimed at Stu otherwise why would the second post say it's not a personal attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: But your initial comment was though, wasn't it? 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: Well it was a bit, but the underlying problem isn't really about Stu (who, let's face it, isn't famous for his in-depth research) but about the system. Far too many politicians are happy to accept whatever they are told at face value - they think due diligence is saying "Is this OK?" and then nodding stuff through, so Stu is only following that lead. No, my first comment was not a personal attack. It was a question to an MHK who posts here under their own name. I may not agree with Stu's politics but I do expect any elected representative to have as much information as possible before making decisions on behalf of the electorate. What I find incredible in this case is that it is the Government who have issued to licence to Crogga to explore for gas but at least one MHK, probably more, is not in possession of the details of that licence. If I went before the Exec team at work talking up the benefits of a proposal but did not know the full facts I would be ripped to pieces and the project stopped immediately! If you are going to promote a project then please have the full details especially of any licences or contracts already in place. Edited July 21, 2022 by manxman1980 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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