Gas deposit

[Amadeus]

Opposition again: red herrings being thrown around (figures used by robertshaw), we’re already transitioning in IOM, from oil to gas. Going from gas to gas with Crogga isn’t transition. 

this is a proper fossil fuel vs green guys punch up. Robertshaw scaring everyone again with costs of not doing it. Huge cost of transition to net zero, 350 million a year has to come from you the taxpayer. Stop listening to green scare stories. Jeez he sounds angry. Wonder how much money he has riding on this. 

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Quite, and do you think Crogga will

a) be putting only enough in so they can make a fortune.

or 

b) putting enough in so that whatever happens there will be plenty to put everything back as it was regardless of profit?

Well, you make remediation a condition of the licence and insist it is represented by capital paid up.

[Amadeus]

It’s ping ponging about now. Robertshaw still loud and almost aggressive in support. Paul Craine seems cornered at times, room feels like it’s more in favour of gas project, I can see dollar signs in people’s eyes. 

 

[A fool and his money.....]

14 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Well, you make remediation a condition of the licence and insist it is represented by capital paid up.

And who tells you what the cost of remediation is?

[Amadeus]

Earliest gas would come upstream is 2026. Crogga guy again trying hard to sell the advantages. Everything is covered financially, refers to the license as covering any concerns. Basically nothing to worry about, only upsides to this. Trust us. 

[Amadeus]

Crogga guy claims 97% of investors are Manx. 

[The Voice of Reason]

11 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

And who tells you what the cost of remediation is?

You get an invoice (s)

[hissingsid]

If Daphne had a solid plan going forward be it wind or tide people may be convinced but it sounds very much as if this money is going to be spent on persuading people to commit to expensive work on properties which unless they are fairly new will not make a lot of difference and purchasing electric cars.   There will no doubt be lots of advertising to push this message across and a steady build up of consultants and staff to ensure this is done.   The money will dribble away until it is gone with nothing concrete to show for it.   She talks about building properties that are eco friendly but how many and how are government going to get involved ?   Give grants to builders ?   It is all pie in the sky, a plan without substance, in fact no plan at all.   It is a disgrace that this amount of money has been assigned to a vague non policy and a lot of people cannot understand why, posturing is one thing but not when it costs 42 million quid.

[0bserver]

44 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

To what? Honest question? 

That's the honest question that the island's green lobby can't or simply won't give you an honest answer too. 

Many of them don't have a clue how to achieve what they're calling for. 

[Amadeus]

1 minute ago, offshoremanxman said:

But if it’s only your money on the line what is the issue? If you find zero gas, you get zero profits. 

I can’t help thinking we’re dealing with a government here that can’t get a simple ferry terminal built without getting done over by the lawyers on the opposite site. What chance is there IOMG can handle an extremely complex multi billion pound project without being left holding the can at the end? 

[Non-Believer]

31 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

 I can see dollar signs in people’s eyes. 

'Cos lots of them are currently seeing their own bank accounts turning red...?

[Stu Peters]

I went along to get a sense of public feeling on this. I'd say 75% of the audience was in favour of extraction. To answer some of the points here*:

1. Crogga would 'double' fund this as part of the contract, so the money would be in the bank to cover all costs, including remediation if necessary
2. Crogga would have sufficient insurance as part of the contract to cover the rebuilding of Maughold Head and the Irish Sea generally if they blow it up/set fire to it/pollute it by mistake.
3. It's an entirely commercial proposition. Government has nothing to do with the building or running of it (phew)!
4. Crogga would sell gas to the IOM at a fixed rate of (at today's prices) 50-60p/therm over a 5-year averaged deal against market price of £2.50. That would only be a small part of production - the rest would be sold to UK/Ireland at market rates.
5. The Crogga guys made a strong, simple and straightforward case tonight. The opposition relied on 'what ifs' and scare stories, and suggested we'd probably get sued by Friends of the Earth if we issued a licence.
6. Paul Craine said 'Greenhouse gas emissions in UK is down since 1990, IOM is up 30%. 8.3 tons per person, compared to 5.4 tons per person in UK. We're one of the worst polluters'. I simply don't see how that can be true (and I respect PC). His chart showed a reduction in the UK and a rise in the IOM - I suggest that the UK had a dirty factory at the end of every street so their figures WERE much higher and the clean air act in the 60's marked an end to that. But I simply can't believe our population is creating more CO2 than the UK. How?

* I'm in favour of licencing Crogga but have nothing, zero involvement with them and don't speak for them. I would almost be as keen for BP or Shell to extract this gas (almost because the profits would go offshore and Crogga is 97% Manx resident). So this post is as a supporter of the general scheme and the result of listening to their Mannin Line interview, having brief chats with Diccen Sargent and Chris Robertshaw and looking at their presentation slides (submitted to all Tynwald members ahead of Friday's Member briefing). Even if I didn't have concerns about the validity of the claims about the reasons for this 'climate emergency' and agreed with Greta, as someone charged with looking after the best interests of the Manx people I honestly think that passing up this opportunity would be criminal. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create energy security, jobs and fund healthcare, education, roads etc. And if there's no recoverable gas, high risk/high return investors lose their shirts - it's cost us nothing.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Stu Peters
Typo

[0bserver]

13 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I went along to get a sense of public feeling on this. I'd say 75% of the audience was in favour of extraction. To answer some of the points here*:

1. Crogga would 'double' fund this as part of the contract, so the money would be in the bank to cover all costs, including remediation if necessary
2. Crogga would have sufficient insurance as part of the contract to cover the rebuilding of Maughold Head and the Irish Sea generally if they blow it up/set fire to it/pollute it by mistake.
3. It's an entirely commercial proposition. Government has nothing to do with the building or running of it (phew)!
4. Crogga would sell gas to the IOM at a fixed rate of (at today's prices) 50-60p/therm over a 5-year averaged deal against market price of £2.50. That would only be a small part of production - the rest would be sold to UK/Ireland at market rates.
5. The Crogga guys made a strong, simple and straightforward case tonight. The opposition relied on 'what ifs' and scare stories, and suggested we'd probably get sued by Friends of the Earth if we issued a licence.
6. Paul Craine said 'Greenhouse gas emissions in UK is down since 1990, IOM is up 30%. 8.3 tons per person, compared to 5.4 tons per person in UK. We're one of the worst polluters'. I simply don't see how that can be true (and I respect PC). His chart showed a reduction in the UK and a rise in the IOM - I suggest that the UK had a dirty factory at the end of every street so their figures WERE much higher and the clean air act in the 60's marked an end to that. But I simply can't believe our population is creating more CO2 than the UK. How?

* I'm in favour of licencing Crogga but have nothing, zero involvement with them and don't speak for them. I would almost be as keen for BP or Shell to extract this gas (almost because the profits would go offshore and Crogga is 97% Manx resident). So this post is as a supporter of the general scheme and the result of listening to their Mannin Line interview, having brief chats with Diccen Sargent and Chris Robertshaw and looking at their presentation slides (submitted to all Tynwald members ahead of Friday's Member briefing). Even if I didn't have concerns about the validity of the claims about the reasons for this 'climate emergency' and agreed with Greta, as someone charged with looking after the best interests of the Manx people I honestly think that passing up this opportunity would be criminal. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create energy security, jobs and fund healthcare, education, roads etc. And if there's no recoverable gas, high risk/high return investors lose their shirts - it's cost us nothing.

Thanks for the update @Stu Peters. To be honest Paul Craine and cohorts are talking bollocks as usual. 

They're selling the GMP short by wanting to hijack and sabotage this opportunity.

Perhaps Paul Craine doesn't have to worry about paying his gas and electricity bills thanks to his big fat LegCo salary? 

As for their made up figures, IOM will always be at a disadvantage as we have to ship everything/everyone to the island. That sets us at a disadvantage straight away. Perhaps they would like us to go full isolationist?

We could stop flying seriously ill people away and just let them die in the car park at Nobles just to save a few carbons on the air ambulance.

Edited March 1, 2022 by 0bserver
LegCo not Comin

[John Wright]

7 hours ago, 0bserver said:

Thanks for the update @Stu Peters. To be honest Paul Craine and cohorts are talking bollocks as usual. 

They're selling the GMP short by wanting to hijack and sabotage this opportunity.

Perhaps Paul Craine doesn't have to worry about paying his gas and electricity bills thanks to his big fat Comin salary? 

As for their made up figures, IOM will always be at a disadvantage as we have to ship everything/everyone to the island. That sets us at a disadvantage straight away. Perhaps they would like us to go full isolationist?

We could stop flying seriously ill people away and just let them die in the car park at Nobles just to save a few carbons on the air ambulance.

When did Paul Craine become a member of CoMin? Does he even have any departmental political memberships?

[Happier diner]

7 hours ago, 0bserver said:

Thanks for the update @Stu Peters. To be honest Paul Craine and cohorts are talking bollocks as usual. 

They're selling the GMP short by wanting to hijack and sabotage this opportunity.

Perhaps Paul Craine doesn't have to worry about paying his gas and electricity bills thanks to his big fat Comin salary? 

As for their made up figures, IOM will always be at a disadvantage as we have to ship everything/everyone to the island. That sets us at a disadvantage straight away. Perhaps they would like us to go full isolationist?

We could stop flying seriously ill people away and just let them die in the car park at Nobles just to save a few carbons on the air ambulance.

The gas is piped to the Island just like everywhere else.