Gas deposit

[Shake me up Judy]

Thanks for that Stu. Did anyone ask Paul Craine to explain why we're a worse polluter than the UK ? He's a great man for the stats (Believe me) but not so hot when it comes to answers or solutions. 

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

When did Paul Craine become a member of CoMin? Does he even have any departmental political memberships?

I'm sure this is the same person? 

https://iomelections.com/news/news_story_695644.html

https://www.tynwald.org.im/about/news/Pages/2161.aspx

For someone who does so much political lobbying in his spare time, he is less than ideal to be sitting on LegCo. 

[Happier diner]

59 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Thanks for that Stu. Did anyone ask Paul Craine to explain why we're a worse polluter than the UK ? He's a great man for the stats (Believe me) but not so hot when it comes to answers or solutions. 

He probably meant in terms of CO2 emission. Per-capita you couldn't really be any worse than us as all our power/heating is produced from non renewables. 

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

He's a great man for the stats (Believe me) but not so hot when it comes to answers or solutions. 

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

You can make stats say whatever you want them to say. Plus don't forget that 68% of all statistics are made up. 

[A fool and his money.....]

11 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I went along to get a sense of public feeling on this. I'd say 75% of the audience was in favour of extraction. To answer some of the points here*:

1. Crogga would 'double' fund this as part of the contract, so the money would be in the bank to cover all costs, including remediation if necessary
2. Crogga would have sufficient insurance as part of the contract to cover the rebuilding of Maughold Head and the Irish Sea generally if they blow it up/set fire to it/pollute it by mistake.
3. It's an entirely commercial proposition. Government has nothing to do with the building or running of it (phew)!
4. Crogga would sell gas to the IOM at a fixed rate of (at today's prices) 50-60p/therm over a 5-year averaged deal against market price of £2.50. That would only be a small part of production - the rest would be sold to UK/Ireland at market rates.
5. The Crogga guys made a strong, simple and straightforward case tonight. The opposition relied on 'what ifs' and scare stories, and suggested we'd probably get sued by Friends of the Earth if we issued a licence.
6. Paul Craine said 'Greenhouse gas emissions in UK is down since 1990, IOM is up 30%. 8.3 tons per person, compared to 5.4 tons per person in UK. We're one of the worst polluters'. I simply don't see how that can be true (and I respect PC). His chart showed a reduction in the UK and a rise in the IOM - I suggest that the UK had a dirty factory at the end of every street so their figures WERE much higher and the clean air act in the 60's marked an end to that. But I simply can't believe our population is creating more CO2 than the UK. How?

* I'm in favour of licencing Crogga but have nothing, zero involvement with them and don't speak for them. I would almost be as keen for BP or Shell to extract this gas (almost because the profits would go offshore and Crogga is 97% Manx resident). So this post is as a supporter of the general scheme and the result of listening to their Mannin Line interview, having brief chats with Diccen Sargent and Chris Robertshaw and looking at their presentation slides (submitted to all Tynwald members ahead of Friday's Member briefing). Even if I didn't have concerns about the validity of the claims about the reasons for this 'climate emergency' and agreed with Greta, as someone charged with looking after the best interests of the Manx people I honestly think that passing up this opportunity would be criminal. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create energy security, jobs and fund healthcare, education, roads etc. And if there's no recoverable gas, high risk/high return investors lose their shirts - it's cost us nothing.

And after 5 years? What does the IoM pay for gas?

[Banker]

11 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

And after 5 years? What does the IoM pay for gas?

Not sure that’s relevant but market rates would be normal 

[Amadeus]

I can't help but feel this will end as another disaster if voted through. If something seems to be too good to be true and all that. "Little risk, loads a money, trust us, what's the worst that could happen" was pretty much Crogga's argument last night. Problem is that the opposition doesn't have a proper plan what to do instead. Or if they have, they're not communicating it clearly enough. 

[A fool and his money.....]

17 minutes ago, Banker said:

Not sure that’s relevant but market rates would be normal 

It's very relevant if you're a gas customer on the island. Does the discount extend beyond 5 years or is it open season after that?

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

I can't help but feel this will end as another disaster if voted through. If something seems to be too good to be true and all that. "Little risk, loads a money, trust us, what's the worst that could happen" was pretty much Crogga's argument last night. Problem is that the opposition doesn't have a proper plan what to do instead. Or if they have, they're not communicating it clearly enough. 

I believe one of the bigger companies pulled away from this scheme a couple of years ago and gave Crogga the reasons. Why did they think it was still viable?

[Utah 01]

2 hours ago, 0bserver said:

You can make stats say whatever you want them to say. Plus don't forget that 68% of all statistics are made up. 

..as has been proven time and time again over the past 2 years.

[finlo]

7 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

I believe one of the bigger companies pulled away from this scheme a couple of years ago and gave Crogga the reasons. Why did they think it was still viable?

Strike now while the price is astronomical?

[Markduc]

Given there are no green alternatives that can guarantee a constant electricity supply 

then it would be madness not to go for the gas , to guarantee our electricity supply. 

we could reduce our minute carbon footprint with a few wind turbines and wait for viable green electricity generation. 

[John Wright]

3 hours ago, 0bserver said:

I'm sure this is the same person? 

https://iomelections.com/news/news_story_695644.html

https://www.tynwald.org.im/about/news/Pages/2161.aspx

For someone who does so much political lobbying in his spare time, he is less than ideal to be sitting on LegCo. 

Yes, but you suggested he had a CoMin salary. He doesn’t. He’s a member of LegCo, not CoMin. A CoMin salary includes a ministerial uplift. He’s neither a minister nor a departmental member

[0bserver]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Yes, but you suggested he had a CoMin salary. He doesn’t. He’s a member of LegCo, not CoMin. A CoMin salary includes a ministerial uplift. He’s neither a minister nor a departmental member

Fair shout! I'm sure the LegCo salary is enough to keep the cold away. 

[Stu Peters]

2 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

It's very relevant if you're a gas customer on the island. Does the discount extend beyond 5 years or is it open season after that?

My understanding is that the 'local' gas supply from Crogga would be at a contractually lower price averaged over a rolling 5 year period, rather than a 5 year discount period as such.