We missed out here!

[Zarley]

12 hours ago, Manx17 said:

It’s not being racist at all. It was a known fact that governments before gave out work permits like free water because they knew most that came here were sending money home to buy houses and apartments then go home spending next to nothing in the economy but funding the governments pension fund. There were lots of families living up Douglas head in one house where the whole family shared one room and live of reduced food from Tesco. Living a shitty life but knowing they had bought a house and 3 apartments to rent out to live of, for when they moved back to there own country. The ones who try to dictate how our island should be, should remind themselves what they left behind and if they want chance go home and make that change in their own countries 

I've never heard of this multi-family house on Douglas Head, or anywhere else on the island for that matter. Did one of the immigrant families own the house? If they rented, who was the landlord who was permitting multiple-occupation in a single family dwelling? Were fire doors etc installed? 

I have known of some immigrants who share flats or houses, but they've all been single with one person, occasionally two, to a bedroom. You seem to be trying to make out like there're three, four, five or more sharing a bedroom. 

Your example smacks of someone adding 1+1 and coming up with 25. 

In my experience, people who come here to work and send money home for a better life there couldn't care less about making changes to how the island is run. Why would they when their plan is to go back home? Immigrants who do want change for the island have made it their home and aren't sending money back to their country of origin. 

[StrangeBrew]

27 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

 I’m not racist at all. But you can not have people coming here wanting changes to suit themselves . They should of fought for changes in their own country  where they were not happy and moved,  not make changes here because the grass is not greener. It is  can not give out work permits or visas, if greedy and only looking for what is in it for them. 

Hang on - so being resident here and paying taxes here isn’t enough? Do you think voting should be restricted to indigenous Manx only? And anyone else who chooses to live here would just have to accept that they have no say? Wtf?!
 

[Roger Mexico]

36 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

It is also known in Southern Ireland  that people rented flats went on the dole and sublet their apartments and went back to their countries and got benefits paid into their bank accounts. That has now changed. The Irish  government clicked on a couple of years ago. So please don’t be naive. 

But no one can claim most benefits on the Isle of Man unless you have been resident for five years.  And hardly anyone is on the dole (JSA) here anyway, numbers are pretty much at a minimum.

[HeliX]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:07 PM, Josem said:

Obviously, I will not be sitting in the House of Keys, and will not be voting on legislation etc.

But you will, apparently, be continuing to lobby under the guise of the "Manx Taxpayers Alliance" despite the Manx Taxpayers making it abundantly clear that they do not want you to represent them.

[pongo]

@Manx17 - I dispute the idea that people moving here force down wages and salaries. Certainly not for people with any kind of skill or trade. The opposite if anything.

Most people moving here in my experience are skilled people earning well above the average salary - spending some of that money back into the local economy. That ultimately creates work for people here with other skills. It also serves to expand the economy.

Amazon cannot fix people's boilers, put in a new kitchen, do the garden, service their car etc. Or even deliver their own stuff.

Edited December 4, 2021 by pongo

[John Wright]

47 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

There are many skilled people that come to live here I agree with you. But you have to remember the Isle of Man wasn’t a very good place for education. Many had to leave to get skills and with that didn’t come back. There is also a lot of people still on minimum wages. 
it wasn’t so long ago that a company at the airport paid little to their  employees who were mostly European  and when they couldn’t get anyone here to work for that amount anymore,  offered a lot more an hour with bonuses to UK workers to do the same job, and that company has a contract with the government. There was a big up roar about it.
 

You really have some very odd ideas. The Island education system post war was very high quality and a much greater number of Manxies got good A levels and were funded to go to university. There was pressure, for some time, to only fund courses that could educate skills to bring back, severely limiting opportunities.

I’ve uncles who left to study electrical engineering, and another nuclear physics, and yes they didn’t return, for fairly obvious reasons.

We could never have supplied those courses or the jobs for graduates from them. Should their ambitions have been thwarted.

Ive other family who did teacher training and came back.

For 250 years the island has had immigrants throughout the whole job market. From remittance men, through Irish, Scots and North Western boarding house keepers and hoteliers, through catering and seasonal workers in tourism, fishing processing etc.

The issues you describe are common with the UK. Poor, exploitative employers, an overheated job market with too few workers chasing too many jobs. We’ve had full employment, by virtually any measure, for two decades or more.

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Manx17 said:

Yes they can . It states you can’t for five years . But you can and people do. 

Really?  And how do they manage to get this money when the regulations say they can't.  Have you informed the Treasury or the Police of this illegal activity?

[pongo]

3 hours ago, Manx17 said:

There was a certain person a few years ago of a department wanting to clamp down on benefits fraud of the sick after uk did it. 
I wrote to this person and said his own department were doing it.  He answered that certain people were entitled to benefits before the 5 years . 
I wrote after I knew a person that had been here 6 months got a work permit for ten hours and got it, not because of the person or who they were it was because he was going after the sick .

In the old East Germany you'd probably have got a medal for touting.

[pongo]

Just now, Manx17 said:

Actually I was apart of a regiment that brought down the Berlin Wall

Are you from a parallel universe with a different world history?

[quilp]

Royal Engineers? 

[Roger Mexico]

36 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

I'm sure that you, like me, find it annoying that people appear to be looking to do the minimum amount of input before trying to get the maximum amount of benefit and conversations like the one you captured are probably occurring regularly. We do have a five year rule for being able to claim certain benefits but there are exceptions written into the legislation to ensure that decisions are fair and reasonable so a person being awarded benefit within five years is not a certain breach of regulations 

I copied and pasted obviously leaving out names. But as he states you can get benefits before 5 years and not a breach. 

But you don't say who 'he' is.  But if the exceptions are "written into the legislation" then they aren't the sort of things you are complaining about - people with no connection to the Island getting benefit straight away.  Two explicit ones are people born on the Island and those who have ten years residence in total but not the immediate last five years.  There are others involving marriage etc to someone who does qualify.

I also specified 'most' benefits - there are some which don't require the full five years (such as JSA based on NI contributions) but these tend not to provide full support - you can't claim for rent for example.

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But you don't say who 'he' is.  But if the exceptions are "written into the legislation" then they aren't the sort of things you are complaining about - people with no connection to the Island getting benefit straight away.  Two explicit ones are people born on the Island and those who have ten years residence in total but not the immediate last five years.  There are others involving marriage etc to someone who does qualify.

I also specified 'most' benefits - there are some which don't require the full five years (such as JSA based on NI contributions) but these tend not to provide full support - you can't claim for rent for example.

And you can add Incapacity, Disability Living and Mobility Allowances and child benefit ( if you come here from certain jurisdictions )

[John Wright]

57 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Well that’s very nice, but when I came home from doing service with my wife and children. I was told I had to be here ten years if I wanted some help with housing as I had come home with no where to stay as my wife was in barracks. They state no benefits for five years until it’s questioned. 

I think you’re confusing qualifying for means tested benefits with qualifying for social housing, being on the housing list, and waiting.

Were you disabled, unable, or virtually unable to walk?  If not you wouldn’t get DLA or MLA.

Were you both working? If your income was above the limits to qualify for Income based JSA/Income support? 

Someone coming fresh to the Island wouldn’t qualify to go on the housing list. And ( I accept it’s wrong ) there isn’t enough social housing.

you sound to have been, in effect, a single man. Very hard to get social housing in those circumstances.

There’d have been plenty of private rentals, you might not have liked it, it might have been expensive and a struggle to make ends meet.

If you were born here, or had been educated here and joined the services from here you’d qualify ( subject to meeting the criteria ) however long you’ve been away.
 

So you’re talking about help with allocation of social housing? Not assistance with housing cost?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

21 hours ago, quilp said:

 

You’re in for a long haul, doubt you'll get very far but stick with it. 

You’re right. Nothing returned on search for “tame elf” as a member. 
 

Guess he/ she will always be a mystery to me

[Gladys]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You’re right. Nothing returned on search for “tame elf” as a member. 
 

Guess he/ she will always be a mystery to me

From memory, he was a poster who had a motoring charge, I think it was his registration plate, who argued the freeman legal fiction bollocks in court.  Unsurprisingly, it didn't help.

He was "assisted" (perhaps manipulated) in his claim by people who quite frankly should have been strung up.  I think he passed away not long after, but the message I got was that he was a nice fella, just taken in by a bunch of cowards who wanted to push that agenda, but had neither the balls nor the resource to help him when the chips were down. 

Utterly shameful.  I had an argument with one of those who promoted it on FB, and it was quite nasty, vindictive and, honestly, unhinged. It would have been worrying had I given a flying rat's arse.