Sheldon Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: I actually think Amadeus is being fairly very childish in his attacks on you Maybe he's just jealous because he's not getting paid to swan around all week producing copy that contains the word "blowout" in increasingly large fonts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 OK, @Josem, let’s tackle this a different way. How much were you paid by the MTPA net ( after tax deductions ) every month during 2021? How many a. Individual, b. Corporate, donors does it have? How many contracts with third parties to supply services or information? How much was the total gross income of MTPA from, and broken down by, sponsors, donors, and entities paying under contracts. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gladys said: Source? I may of course just be imaging things, but that single syllable seems redolent of sarcasm, if not outright disbelief, with a hint of bait being scattered by a master tactician who never asks questions they don't already know the answer to. I can almost see the cocked eyebrow as you typed it. 😉 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I doubt you will get a response John 😏 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sheldon said: Maybe he's just jealous because he's not getting paid to swan around all week producing copy that contains the word "blowout" in increasingly large fonts. BLOWOUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sheldon said: I may of course just be imaging things, but that single syllable seems redolent of sarcasm, if not outright disbelief, with a hint of bait being scattered by a master tactician who never asks questions they don't already know the answer to. I can almost see the cocked eyebrow as you typed it. 😉 Not all that was cocked!😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, Gladys said: Source? On the legality: you can get a reasonable overview of the privacy laws in the Isle of Man online here: https://www.inforights.im/ On the morality: You might find many of the various amicus curiae briefs to this US Supreme Court case to be informative: https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/americans-for-prosperity-foundation-v-becerra/ You can read the opinions of many community groups from the left, right and other, argue that their donors have a right to privacy. There's also a very good explanation of the morality of privacy available online here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/privacy/ (although this covers much broader issues than just the moral right of privacy rights of donors to community organisations) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Josem said: No, you're not understanding point (a) correctly. When I say "The Manx TaxPayers' Alliance does not receive any taxpayer money" I mean that it does not receive any money collected via taxes. Well of course it doesn’t. Money collected via taxes goes to the government. Why would they be giving that money to the Manx Taxpayers Alliance? Or say Lib Vannin, the Manx Labour Party or any other political organisation? Edited December 2, 2021 by The Voice of Reason 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, John Wright said: OK, @Josem, let’s tackle this a different way. How much were you paid by the MTPA net ( after tax deductions ) every month during 2021? How many a. Individual, b. Corporate, donors does it have? How many contracts with third parties to supply services or information? How much was the total gross income of MTPA from, and broken down by, sponsors, donors, and entities paying under contracts. While I'm grateful for the special attention that I have in your heart, I do not expect that the Manx TaxPayers' Alliance will publish the answers to all these questions. The Manx TaxPayers' Alliance isn't a government department, it doesn't receive any money from taxes. Indeed, it is not even a charity, and contributions do not even earn a tax deduction! We disclose everything we are required to do so, and a lot more. But that doesn't mean we need to answer every question from everyone, because at the end of the day, what other people do with their own money is their own business. There's no legal or moral right to such information. This is, of course, different to a Government department which spends money that has been compulsorily taken from the people of Mann. Indeed, it is also different from charities, which have additional reporting requirements in Manx law because of their favourable tax benefits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Josem said: On the legality: you can get a reasonable overview of the privacy laws in the Isle of Man online here: https://www.inforights.im/ On the morality: You might find many of the various amicus curiae briefs to this US Supreme Court case to be informative: https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/americans-for-prosperity-foundation-v-becerra/ You can read the opinions of many community groups from the left, right and other, argue that their donors have a right to privacy. There's also a very good explanation of the morality of privacy available online here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/privacy/ (although this covers much broader issues than just the moral right of privacy rights of donors to community organisations) Well, the simple answer is that you tell donors that you want to be open about your funding and so will make available who is funding you. You don't have to give addresses or dates of birth, but if someone provides funding, then they have to accept that will be open information. Classic case of using privacy and GDPR rules to obfuscate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Josem said: While I'm grateful for the special attention that I have in your heart, I do not expect that the Manx TaxPayers' Alliance will publish the answers to all these questions. The Manx TaxPayers' Alliance isn't a government department, it doesn't receive any money from taxes. Indeed, it is not even a charity, and contributions do not even earn a tax deduction! We disclose everything we are required to do so, and a lot more. But that doesn't mean we need to answer every question from everyone, because at the end of the day, what other people do with their own money is their own business. There's no legal or moral right to such information. This is, of course, different to a Government department which spends money that has been compulsorily taken from the people of Mann. Indeed, it is also different from charities, which have additional reporting requirements in Manx law because of their favourable tax benefits. Man calling for transparency fails to be transparent. Can you not see how dodgy this appears? What exactly are you trying to do Michael? What is the end game here? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Gladys said: Well, the simple answer is that you tell donors that you want to be open about your funding and so will make available who is funding you. You don't have to give addresses or dates of birth, but if someone provides funding, then they have to accept that will be open information. Classic case of using privacy and GDPR rules to obfuscate. a) Is there any organisation in the Isle of Man which imposes such rules? Or is this something that you've created only for the Manx TaxPayers' Alliance? b) Even if there was such an organisation that imposed such rules (and I doubt there is!) that's not something that we want to do. Given the creepy behaviour* of various folks on the island, can you really be surprised? *For goodness sake, our very own Douglas Clowncillor's behaviour on this very forum in circulating lunatic conspiracy theories, or flights that (mostly) I took from 2007 to 2011. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Josem said: a) Is there any organisation in the Isle of Man which imposes such rules? Or is this something that you've created only for the Manx TaxPayers' Alliance? b) Even if there was such an organisation that imposed such rules (and I doubt there is!) that's not something that we want to do. Given the creepy behaviour* of various folks on the island, can you really be surprised? *For goodness sake, our very own Douglas Clowncillor's behaviour on this very forum in circulating lunatic conspiracy theories, or flights that (mostly) I took from 2007 to 2011. No, I thought it may be voluntary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ham_N_Eggs said: Man calling for transparency fails to be transparent. Can you not see how dodgy this appears? Perhaps to someone who does not understand the difference. As I said in the post that you quoted, there is, of course, a big difference between a private organisation (funded entirely by voluntary contributions) and a Government department which spends money that has been compulsorily taken from the people of Mann. Indeed, as I said above, it is also different from charities, which have additional reporting requirements in Manx law because of their favourable tax benefits. 1 minute ago, Ham_N_Eggs said: What exactly are you trying to do Michael? What is the end game here? The end game is for taxes to be low, fair and simple, to improve government transparency, and to get great value for money for taxpayers. I think that these things will improve the community where I live - and I want the place where I live to be an even better place. I am hopeful to one day build a family in the Isle of Man, and I think that improving those things will improve our community not just for my family, but for our community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 On 12/1/2021 at 10:33 AM, Rhumsaa said: Power and Flint seem to be big fans too If you’d bothered to listen to the podcasts you’d have heard me regularly disagreeing with his brand of liberalism. And on the twitters too As a bloke, I like him. As I like you Rhumsaa. Takes a lot for me to dislike anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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