Roger Mexico Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, wrighty said: I’ve always thought that having a limit is a bad idea - it will encourage people to test it. Better to have such a low limit (it can’t be zero, because various natural items such as bananas, orange juice etc have a bit of alcohol in them) that even a single drink would put you over. Alternatively, scrap limits altogether and do reaction tests. I reckon I could drive better after a few pints (not that I do) than some of the people (usually elderly, sorry to be ageist) who are legitimately on the road but don’t seem to have any spatial awareness and can’t cope with Quarterbridge. That's an incredibly bad idea. We live in a world where 93% of US drivers think they are better than average and I shouldn't imagine Brits are any better. So vast numbers of drivers will be convinced that they are still wonderful and completely coordinated no matter how much they drink. Add to that that alcohol makes people think they are better at things anyway and the roads will be full of the terminally sozzled believing they are driving perfectly and more than capable of acing any silly little test the police throw at them. Until they actually do - or the driver hits something or someone else first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Back in the day they used to ask you to get out of the car and walk in a straight line if you could you were sent on your way, of course there wasn’t the same amount of traffic on the road then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 33 minutes ago, hissingsid said: Back in the day they used to ask you to get out of the car and walk in a straight line if you could you were sent on your way, of course there wasn’t the same amount of traffic on the road then. But there were many more deaths. Deaths on UK roads have been under 2000 every year since 2009. In 1966 there were 7985. Even in 1930 , where there really were many fewer vehicles, there were 7305. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: That's an incredibly bad idea. We live in a world where 93% of US drivers think they are better than average and I shouldn't imagine Brits are any better. So vast numbers of drivers will be convinced that they are still wonderful and completely coordinated no matter how much they drink. Add to that that alcohol makes people think they are better at things anyway and the roads will be full of the terminally sozzled believing they are driving perfectly and more than capable of acing any silly little test the police throw at them. Until they actually do - or the driver hits something or someone else first. I agree. I’m for a (virtually) zero limit. But my point was that the current law takes no account of people’s different levels of tolerance to alcohol, or individual pharmacodynamics (for a given level of blood alcohol the effect on performance is different depending on whether you’re on the way up or down), or an average individual’s baseline level of competence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampsterkahn Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: That's an incredibly bad idea. We live in a world where 93% of US drivers think they are better than average and I shouldn't imagine Brits are any better. So vast numbers of drivers will be convinced that they are still wonderful and completely coordinated no matter how much they drink. Add to that that alcohol makes people think they are better at things anyway and the roads will be full of the terminally sozzled believing they are driving perfectly and more than capable of acing any silly little test the police throw at them. Until they actually do - or the driver hits something or someone else first. Most drivers will claim or assume they are “ better “ than the average driver. Surprisingly,in a way it’s true. In terms of having accidents, most drivers are” better than the average” This isn’t as daft as it first appears. It is because there is a relatively small number of drivers who have a disproportionately very high number of accidents/ incidents ( what ever you wish to call them)-to the extent that most drivers are better than the “average” in terms of accidents per driver. Edited December 7, 2021 by hampsterkahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 6 hours ago, hampsterkahn said: Most drivers will claim or assume they are “ better “ than the average driver. Surprisingly,in a way it’s true. In terms of having accidents, most drivers are” better than the average” This isn’t as daft as it first appears. It is because there is a relatively small number of drivers who have a disproportionately very high number of accidents/ incidents ( what ever you wish to call them)-to the extent that most drivers are better than the “average” in terms of accidents per driver. Just like most people have more than the average number of legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, wrighty said: Just like most people have more than the average number of legs. Top question for the next Zoom quiz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 11 hours ago, quilp said: Yeah, sobriety testing. Reaction-time, perceived risk, etc. Shouldn't be too hard to put a bit of software together to perform the test. Can you write that again but slower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 11 hours ago, wrighty said: I agree. I’m for a (virtually) zero limit. But my point was that the current law takes no account of people’s different levels of tolerance to alcohol, or individual pharmacodynamics (for a given level of blood alcohol the effect on performance is different depending on whether you’re on the way up or down), or an average individual’s baseline level of competence. Oh I agree completely on the physiology of it (including that the current limits will be too high for many) it's just that I think the psychology would be disastrous. I referred to the historic figures for road deaths above because many people don't appreciate just how deadly driving used to be. Part of the drop is due to better-engineered cars and part better medical care, but it's mostly from a change in attitude of drivers away from a belief that they know best to conforming to set limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 31 minutes ago, Roxanne said: I still remember my dad, drunk as a lord after a day’s Point to Point racing, bringing me and my 4/6 year old pals home in the car all bouncing around in the back with no seatbelts and my father making the journey as hazardous as possible to make us squeal and laugh even louder. I also remember when it was OK to take the car from Douglas to Peel stopping at every pub along the way and back again with the one ‘least drunk’, in the driving seat. They were different times then. The pubs closed at 10pm, the street lights went off not long after and not many chanced going out walking knowing the roads were full of drunk drivers. It’s not a time I’m proud of or would want to return to but it’s just how it was. I was glad when drunk driving education became ‘a thing’. Pretty soon we all went into the ‘designated driver’ mode and pretty soon it all seemed quite normalised and, if I’m honest, also it was a bit of a relief because even though we did it, we knew it wasn’t right. Since then there seems to have been a bit of a shift with some of the younger ones who didn’t live through those times of anti drunk driving messages and the introduction of breathalysers now thinking again that it’s ok to do it. Not all of them, not by a long way, but there are a fair amount who don’t see what the issue is. And that’s a worrying thing for all of us. There is also the worry at the opposite end of the spectrum with middle aged and older people who spend a lot of their days and nights having a steady stream of alcohol poured into them in a ‘civilised ‘ manner. The next day they’re off out in the car, under the weather and almost certainly over the breathalyser. We don’t seem to think of them so much as being a hazard because they are old and ‘respectable’, but there are bloody loads of them I bet, driving with alcohol in their bloodstreams, taking grandkids to school and, god Forbid, also picking them up at the end of the day after their couple of ‘large’ gins after lunch. So any kind of publicity at any time of year gets a thumb up from me. We all have a responsibility here to keep one another safe. It’s not just the job of the police. If you know someone who drinks heavily (or smokes a lot of weed) then it’s for us to have that conversation with them. That’s what community is all about. It’s not just the job of one organisation. Yes, I remember those days. Socially responsible friends would take the keys off a driver unable to walk or talk, but they would have to be literally incapable before anyone would do so. Different times as you say. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 My father took out the gates on the level crossing at PSM Station. What made it a particularly fine effort was the fact that they were open at the time....! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 15 hours ago, hissingsid said: Back in the day they used to ask you to get out of the car and walk in a straight line if you could you were sent on your way, of course there wasn’t the same amount of traffic on the road then. I had that on Douglas promenade, had to touch nose with 2 hand’s whilst eyes closed as well. Nigel Kemp told me to get home quickly & safely!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Roxanne said: I remember coming back from Peel one night with one of my husbands. He was so drunk he had to drive with his hand over one eye so he could see. He pulled over at the arboretum to compose himself and then said, (without one word of a lie) “We’re going to have to get going, it’s nearly ten and all the drunks will be out on the road soon”. How many husbands did you have at that time then ? Asking for a friend ! 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Roxanne said: I remember coming back from Peel one night with one of my husbands. He was so drunk he had to drive with his hand over one eye so he could see. He pulled over at the arboretum to compose himself and then said, (without one word of a lie) “We’re going to have to get going, it’s nearly ten and all the drunks will be out on the road soon”. A somewhat more permanent fixture than a "husband for the night"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, Roxanne said: That one actually lasted twenty years. I used to frequent a certain pub on the TT course back in the 60's and around 9-30 the police would arrive to make sure a certain farmer /butcher got home safely , I made a comment one night and the bobby said it was part of their duty to prevent accidents , , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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