Ringy Rose Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 20 minutes ago, finlo said: Made or declared a profit? But according to this forum, private businesses are lean,mean, efficient machines and wouldn't ever have unnecessary expenditure. Surely this forum's beliefs on private enterprise aren't wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: A P & L validates matters signed off by accounting professionals. An audited P&L is in the government accounts? They lose £5m a year, which includes the schools and patient transfer work as well as bus services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 3 hours ago, ManxTaxPayer said: Yeah, that might work as a long term plan. In the meantime though, silly not to run it. As long as it wipes its face I don't mind , but you don't run a heritage rail service in the middle of winter and in a Pandemic for the benefit of tourist visitors , I was at groudle railway recently and what a joy to behold ,ass those young smiling faces ,and no drain on the public purse , 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulos The Great Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said: But according to this forum, private businesses are lean,mean, efficient machines and wouldn't ever have unnecessary expenditure. Surely this forum's beliefs on private enterprise aren't wrong? But that’s true ginger muff. Airports especially are massive infrastructure investments that usually generate a huge investment return for investors. Except the ones that are terribly run by incompetent idiots who used to run airport sandwich shops which have not been grown on a business case that has any foothold in reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Ringy Rose said: The dining services more than wash their face, they're usually sold out. Covid will be affecting all hospitality though. Except that it doesn't. The taxpayer spent hundreds of thousands of pounds fixing up carriages and the kitchen car for the dining train. That cost will never be acknowledged by DOI as it was a capital cost and they only concern themselves with the revenue budget. Imagine opening a restaurant but not having to pay for the building? The economics of La La Land that is the IOM Public Sector. Government shouldn't be competing with private hospitality businesses at a time when the sector had virtually collapsed and continues to be hammered as a result of covid. Yes it might be nice to go and eat your tea on a train, but as I've mentioned it's massively subsidised by taxpayers and it steals business away from private businesses that are going their best to get by already. I see the contract for the dining train is out for tender at the moment. Crookall needs to rip it up and throw it in the bin. A full forensic accounting audit is needed of the trains operation and put it on hiatus for 3 years regardless so the sector can recover. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said: An audited P&L is in the government accounts? They lose £5m a year, which includes the schools and patient transfer work as well as bus services. The railways were losing £8.5m a year prior to covid. DOI figures don't reflect the true cost as they always neglect to add the capital costs (train tracks, fixing up broken trams etc.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said: I am told that BV make a profit on the Douglas-Airport/Castletown route, and on Douglas-Peel. The rest is loss making. Always has been. Always will be. Some services cost more to run than they make in revenue. Those services have value in other ways- reducing car journeys, allowing isolated people to travel- which don't show on a P&L account. What a sad outlook on life you must have. Why are you conflating the issues of true public transport (buses) with the non-essential 'nice to haves' that are the railways? Buses provide public transport which is a requirement for a prosperous economy - getting people to work, children to school, people to hospital appointments. The railways are not public transport. They're just archaic museum pieces that have no place being run by Government. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 hours ago, James Blonde said: The railways are not public transport. They're just archaic museum pieces that have no place being run by Government. Finally you admit what your real agenda is. Which is what I correctly predicted earlier. You dislike the railways and see no benefit in them. The Government and others clearly feel differently and frankly I agree. People like you would wish to see all Manx Heritage closed, destroyed or handed over to the private sector. You would turn the Island into a bland place no different from many places in the UK. You have no idea how lucky we are to have so much preserved and available to us in such a small area. You appear to know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opusManx Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 13, 2022 by opusManx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 9 hours ago, Omobono said: As long as it wipes its face I don't mind , but you don't run a heritage rail service in the middle of winter and in a Pandemic for the benefit of tourist visitors , I was at groudle railway recently and what a joy to behold ,ass those young smiling faces ,and no drain on the public purse , Groudle railway is run by volunteers and is only operating at weekends in summer & Xmas, not really comparable. I went on train & tram , really enjoyable, great scenery & worth the fare & the service was very busy particularly to snaefell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 2, 2022 Author Share Posted January 2, 2022 9 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Finally you admit what your real agenda is. Which is what I correctly predicted earlier. You dislike the railways and see no benefit in them. The Government and others clearly feel differently and frankly I agree. People like you would wish to see all Manx Heritage closed, destroyed or handed over to the private sector. You would turn the Island into a bland place no different from many places in the UK. You have no idea how lucky we are to have so much preserved and available to us in such a small area. You appear to know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. What I want is Government to get it's priorities right. 1) stop spending on all non-essential nice to haves until both the health service and education are fixed. 2) stop messing around playing taxis with expensive minibuses 3) stop competing with private businesses in the hospitality and taxi trade by muscling in on their market. You say I don't know how 'lucky' it apparently is that we have so much junk 'persevered' here at extreme cost to the taxpayer... do you think people who are stuck on 3 year waiting lists for healthcafe feel 'lucky'? Do you think it gives them a warm fuzzy glow to know you and a few other anoraks tootle around the island on a choo choo while they wait for healthcare? I'm sure the warm fuzzy feeling is akin to someone having pissed themselves. You say I know the value of nothing yet your the one who believes an old train is a higher priority than people's quality of life - what a bizarre set of priorities you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 hour ago, James Blonde said: I'm sure the warm fuzzy feeling is akin to someone having pissed themselves. Perhaps for you . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 3 hours ago, James Blonde said: 1) stop spending on all non-essential nice to haves until both the health service and education are fixed. Health and Education are certainly vital functions and they do need addressing but have required that attention for years. You also need to remember that the Island is simply not big enough to provide specialist services which means that they need to travel to the UK for treatment. Unless you are willing to pay a hell of a lot more in taxes to have specialists and specialist equipment sat around doing nothing then you are simply not living in the real world. As for Education, surely you realise that the "junk" you refer to can be used as part of teaching social history through school trips? 3 hours ago, James Blonde said: 2) stop messing around playing taxis with expensive minibuses Taxi's are horrendously expensive particularly for older people with limited income. It makes sense that the Government provide a on-demand service to the remoter communities. 3 hours ago, James Blonde said: 3) stop competing with private businesses in the hospitality and taxi trade by muscling in on their market. Surely an effectively run private business will be robust enough to compete? Aren't we always getting told that the private sector is much more efficient than the public sector? 3 hours ago, James Blonde said: You say I know the value of nothing yet your the one who believes an old train is a higher priority than people's quality of life - what a bizarre set of priorities you have. I have had family members who have been on those waiting lists but as I said earlier they needed specialist treatment which hinges on the UK waiting lists. The problem we have here is the lack of specialists and that is never going to change sadly. I do not hold an "old train" as a higher priority than someones life. I do, however, believe that the our Manx heritage and historic buildings, railways, monuments and museums all add to the quality of life for people living here. As I have said if you take them away then you take a lot away from the uniqueness of island life. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 2, 2022 Author Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Unless you are willing to pay a hell of a lot more in taxes to have specialists and specialist equipment sat around doing nothing then you are simply not living in the real world. I'm more than happy for Government to stop spending £8.5m on junk and re-direct it to the health service. We're not talking super specialist procedures. Just waiting lists that need to be tackled. Edited January 2, 2022 by James Blonde 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 2, 2022 Author Share Posted January 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I do not hold an "old train" as a higher priority than someones life. I do, however, believe that the our Manx heritage and historic buildings, railways, monuments and museums all add to the quality of life for people living here. As I have said if you take them away then you take a lot away from the uniqueness of island life. There's zero reason why it can't be maintained by specialist interest groups that don't bleed the taxpayer of cash. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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