IOM poverty

[Zarley]

17 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I agree with the your comments, and a minimum requirement clause to work go Manx Care would ensure that the islands funds used to train new medical staff are benefitting other jurisdictions. 

Did you mean aren't benefiting?

[2112]

4 minutes ago, Zarley said:

Did you mean aren't benefiting?

What should be done is in return for the training, bursary and assistance to gain professional and employment experience in a medical setting, upon qualification that individual must commit to working for Manx Care only for a set period of time. 

[Zarley]

4 minutes ago, 2112 said:

What should be done is in return for the training, bursary and assistance to gain professional and employment experience in a medical setting, upon qualification that individual must commit to working for Manx Care only for a set period of time. 

I agree with the set period of time. The residency requirement to get on the courses is five years, and I think an equivalent five year post-graduation period of working for Manx Care would be reasonable.

[HeliX]

6 minutes ago, Zarley said:

I agree with the set period of time. The residency requirement to get on the courses is five years, and I think an equivalent five year post-graduation period of working for Manx Care would be reasonable.

Sounds a little bit like kidnapping. 

[2112]

6 minutes ago, Zarley said:

I agree with the set period of time. The residency requirement to get on the courses is five years, and I think an equivalent five year post-graduation period of working for Manx Care would be reasonable.

Australia, and New Zealand and other countries treat Nurses as a necessity qualification and skills in admitting new immigrants into the country.

[2112]

1 minute ago, HeliX said:

Sounds a little bit like kidnapping. 

Perhaps we taxpayers should fund their training and qualifications, to watch them leave for a job in Manchester, Liverpool or Overseas. It’s never ideal but the island needs to protect its investments.

[HeliX]

6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Perhaps we taxpayers should fund their training and qualifications, to watch them leave for a job in Manchester, Liverpool or Overseas. It’s never ideal but the island needs to protect its investments.

Perhaps encouraging people to stay by providing good pathways into well paying jobs in the specialisms they chose would be better than legally trapping them into staying. 

[The Voice of Reason]

16 hours ago, manxman34 said:

Your reference to 'O' levels shows how up to date your knowledge is, as does your silly comment about useless degrees. Name five of these people who think the world owes them a living.  Do you know how much it costs to put a child through uni, even with government paying some of the fees? The majority of children do not finish education at 16, and have not done so for a number of years. Many have difficulty in finding suitable courses and training, and the apprenticeship situation is dire. 30 year old Thatcherite rhetoric does not advance the debate, nor does it help our young people to become decent, valued and contributing members of society.

What silly comment about useless degrees?

I don’t believe I made such a comment.

As for your challenge to name five of these people that think the world owes them a living (As I said some,but not all graduates) I could,, but do you seriously expect me to name them on these pages?

As to the cost of putting a child through uni, yes I know how much it costs having done it myself (horrendous) 

I said there were many children (not most) who finish their education at 16.

Higher education is not for everyone and those who don’t enter into it for whatever reason ( maybe their parents can’t afford it) can still be decent,valued and contributing members of society.

You do come across as somewhat elitist if you don’t mind me saying.

[Declan]

15 hours ago, 2112 said:

I didn’t say I was advocating censorship of what courses people take. I said perhaps young people should be encouraged to take courses of areas which may be useful to the island. 

Had they took that approach in the 1970's there would be a surplus of Hotel Management graduates in the 1980's.

Someone studying an esoteric subject like "Colour Technology" might return to the island set up a business doing technical things with colour. An English or history graduate might write then next Game of Thrones and boost the Islands tourist economy. 

Also you'll be asking civil servants - who've left school at 16 and only ever worked for the IOMG to make decisions about the usefulness of subjects they have no understanding of. 

[Zarley]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Sounds a little bit like kidnapping. 

 

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Perhaps encouraging people to stay by providing good pathways into well paying jobs in the specialisms they chose would be better than legally trapping them into staying. 

I don't think calling it kidnapping or trapping is fair. It would be your choice whether or not to take a place on the course knowing you'd be expected to work here for a set period of time afterward. There's fierce competition for places and this may weed out those who want "take the money and run" so to speak.

Would you be happier if those who don't want to work here be charged £9,250 per year to study? That's the current tuition fee at Liverpool University. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Zarley
AutoINcorrect

[HeliX]

25 minutes ago, Zarley said:

 

I don't think calling it kidnapping or trapping is fair. It would be your choice whether or not to take a place on the course knowing you'd be expected to work here for a set period of time afterward. There's fierce competition for places and this may weed out those who want "take the money and run" so to speak.

Would you be happier if those who don't want to work here be charged £9,250 per year to study? That's the current tuition fee at Liverpool University. 

There are many situations that can change a person's circumstances, particularly during a 3(+) year course.

I was under the impression the Government didn't cover the full tuition cost anymore? It's been a while since I went to University, to be fair! Even when I went they asked if you "intended" to come back to the Island before approving your grant.

 

EDIT: To answer this bit specifically "Would you be happier if those who don't want to work here be charged £9,250 per year to study?"

No, I don't think freedom to study and then move should be limited to the rich.

Edited January 13, 2022 by HeliX

[Zarley]

26 minutes ago, HeliX said:

There are many situations that can change a person's circumstances, particularly during a 3(+) year course.

I was under the impression the Government didn't cover the full tuition cost anymore? It's been a while since I went to University, to be fair! Even when I went they asked if you "intended" to come back to the Island before approving your grant.

 

EDIT: To answer this bit specifically "Would you be happier if those who don't want to work here be charged £9,250 per year to study?"

No, I don't think freedom to study and then move should be limited to the rich.

The IOMG don't cover tuition costs aside from students from very low income families. The nursing courses are the only exception. Tuition costs are covered in full for nursing, together with a £5,000 yearly bursary, neither of which are means tested. 

I also think education should not be only for the rich. To the contrary it should be free, or at least very low cost. I think it should be paid for through taxes; after all it is an investment in all our futures.

Apprenticeships should also be more widely available and free or very low cost. Not everyone wants to attend university, but everyone should be able to have some form of education beyond high school if they want one. 

I understand that circumstances can change but surely such changes could somehow be accommodated.

To be fair, perhaps what bothered me was the way the speaker emphasised and spoke at length about the idea that one could earn the qualifications and leave to work elsewhere, but never said a word about the benefits to both the student and the wider community of using the qualifications here. It came across as encouraging leaving, but not encouraging remaining.  It didn't sit right with the person I attended with either. 

[HeliX]

Just now, Zarley said:

The IOMG don't cover tuition costs aside from students from very low income families. The nursing courses are the only exception. Tuition costs are covered in full for nursing, together with a £5,000 yearly bursary, neither of which are means tested. 

I also think education should not be only for the rich. To the contrary it should be free, or at least very low cost. I think it should be paid for through taxes; after all it is an investment in all our futures.

Apprenticeships should also be more widely available and free or very low cost. Not everyone wants to attend university, but everyone should be able to have some form of education beyond high school if they want one. 

I understand that circumstances can change but surely such changes could somehow be accommodated.

To be fair, perhaps what bothered me was the way the speaker emphasised and spoke at length about the idea that one could earn the qualifications and leave to work elsewhere, but never said a word about the benefits to both the student and the wider community of using the qualifications here. It came across as encouraging leaving, but not encouraging remaining.  It didn't sit right with the person I attended with either. 

RE: The bold part, there are that many valid circumstance changes that you'd end up with the same system again anyway - please come back but we can't make you. Which I think is the right approach. We should be aiming to retain our own talent, and attract new talent, through merit rather than requirement.

[Banker]

4 hours ago, HeliX said:

The IOMG don't cover tuition costs aside from students

The government do cover most tuition costs for all students except for those earning over £100k with just one child & increases upwards depending on children in education. You have to take out loan for £2.5k pa as contributions so over 3 year course £7.5k towards £27.75k cost.

Above has been in place 7/8 years.

 

[Boris Johnson]

6 hours ago, Declan said:

Also you'll be asking civil servants - who've left school at 16 and only ever worked for the IOMG to make decisions about the usefulness of subjects they have no understanding of. 

Aint that the truth........

The generation I grew up with here in the 70s who were in the middle, B stream, are all now nearing the end of their CS careers on the island.

Some, in fact most of the ones I know, are well up the CS greasy pole and are in charge of making decisions that effect all of us.

I am in not jealous saying this,  I make a very decent living but of the ones I went to school with and know since are not the sharpest.

I would go as far as saying I would not employ them myself in one of my businesses' less demanding positions.

They have moved up the ladder just based on time served, not on ability it seems. The few I know from school that did go to uni and were bright are no further up the ladder than the B streamers.

Regarding encouraging our youth to take degrees that when they return will benefit the island, the island is no longer attractive to any type of dynamic youth or someone who wants to set up their own small business. All 3 of my children have not returned and are doing well in the UK and further afield.