MNH to Waste £5M

[The Bastard]

54 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Community in decline?

The nautical museum is our national collection

MNH should put forward a proposed 10 year development plan for all it's estate, to include enhancement to both Castle Rushen and the nautical museum

You forgot the National Felt Museum.

Where's the money going to come from for this mighty expenditure on a 10-year plan ?

MNH will probably disappear into a trust in the next few years, and there isn't a tourist industry that can support enhancement of multiple single-visit museums scattered all over the island any more.

Something like the "Peggy" would need a constant turnover of people who (a) haven't already seen it (b) are prepared to pay a fair amount of cash to see it - that's not sustainable for a small local population who are pretty unlikely to want to see it more than once (if at all). 

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, The Bastard said:

You forgot the National Felt Museum.

Where's the money going to come from for this mighty expenditure on a 10-year plan ?

MNH will probably disappear into a trust in the next few years, and there isn't a tourist industry that can support enhancement of multiple single-visit museums scattered all over the island any more.

Something like the "Peggy" would need a constant turnover of people who (a) haven't already seen it (b) are prepared to pay a fair amount of cash to see it - that's not sustainable for a small local population who are pretty unlikely to want to see it more than once (if at all). 

The Nautical Museum is essentially something that should be run by volunteers and open on weekends during the summer. 

It seems pretty obvious that the House of Manannan will be crying for funding next (all the broken displays and dusty exhibits) - if money is going to be spent then stick the Peggy in the HoM and close down the Nautical Museum.

The only benefit of a 10 year expenditure plan would be to make politicians aware how much money it's expected to cost. As you've already said there is no funding that will support a big spending plan. 

 

[SleepyJoe]

5 hours ago, The Bastard said:

You forgot the National Felt Museum.

Where's the money going to come from for this mighty expenditure on a 10-year plan ?

MNH will probably disappear into a trust in the next few years, and there isn't a tourist industry that can support enhancement of multiple single-visit museums scattered all over the island any more.

Something like the "Peggy" would need a constant turnover of people who (a) haven't already seen it (b) are prepared to pay a fair amount of cash to see it - that's not sustainable for a small local population who are pretty unlikely to want to see it more than once (if at all). 

You forget that DfE Minister Allinson is to bring 500,000 visitors here per annum, starting this year

[The Bastard]

The island had 500,000 annual visitors at its peak, when there were few affordable alternatives, when most of the properties close to the sea were hotels and guest houses, wakes weeks were still running, there was a fleet of ferries, a huge working population centred around servicing the needs of tourists, and there were amusement parks, roller coasters, beauty contests, famous names in concert, resorts, tour companies, tramways, music halls, cinemas, nightclubs, ballrooms, bandstands, theatres, amusement arcades, tea gardens, boating lakes, cafes, campsites and tourist sites all over the island. We're never going to see those numbers again. Times have moved on, and going for a hill walk and an ice cream on the prom is no longer what tourists are after, particularly since for the tiny minority of ageing Boomers that want that stuff, it's easier and cheaper to drive up to Llandudno, up to Cumbria or over the Skye bridge. I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

Edited January 20, 2022 by The Bastard

[Two-lane]

The IoM Nautical museum is a small house with some interesting bits and pieces inside.

Greenwich has a nautical museum - but it also has quite a few more visitors, and it's free.

 

[Non-Believer]

10 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

Because in order to justify their positions, a burgeoning Department of highly-paid public servants say they will?

[0bserver]

15 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

The island had 500,000 annual visitors at its peak, when there were few affordable alternatives, when most of the properties close to the sea were hotels and guest houses, wakes weeks were still running, there was a fleet of ferries, a huge working population centred around servicing the needs of tourists, and there were amusement parks, roller coasters, beauty contests, famous names in concert, resorts, tour companies, tramways, music halls, cinemas, nightclubs, ballrooms, bandstands, theatres, amusement arcades, tea gardens, boating lakes, cafes, campsites and tourist sites all over the island. We're never going to see those numbers again. Times have moved on, and going for a hill walk and an ice cream on the prom is no longer what tourists are after, particularly since for the tiny minority of ageing Boomers that want that stuff, it's easier and cheaper to drive up to Llandudno, up to Cumbria or over the Skye bridge. I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

 

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Because in order to justify their positions, a burgeoning Department of highly-paid public servants say they will?

You're both entirely right. There is also a wish (for reasons that escape me) from some parts to just maintain the status quo. 

All the 'attractions' are apparently part of our national identity.

[2112]

9 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

The IoM Nautical museum is a small house with some interesting bits and pieces inside.

Greenwich has a nautical museum - but it also has quite a few more visitors, and it's free.

 

Jerseys Maritime Museum is £10, but has interesting exhibits including boats inside and outside. If you want a good free museum with loads of interesting exhibits, the National Railway Museum in York. Whilst the Peggy has a part within Manx History, I would argue that the money being spent isn’t justified. 

[Happier diner]

13 hours ago, The Bastard said:

. I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

Correction

[The Bastard]

14 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Correction

Odin's Raven and Peggy ?

[manxman1980]

13 hours ago, The Bastard said:

The island had 500,000 annual visitors at its peak, when there were few affordable alternatives, when most of the properties close to the sea were hotels and guest houses, wakes weeks were still running, there was a fleet of ferries, a huge working population centred around servicing the needs of tourists, and there were amusement parks, roller coasters, beauty contests, famous names in concert, resorts, tour companies, tramways, music halls, cinemas, nightclubs, ballrooms, bandstands, theatres, amusement arcades, tea gardens, boating lakes, cafes, campsites and tourist sites all over the island. We're never going to see those numbers again. Times have moved on, and going for a hill walk and an ice cream on the prom is no longer what tourists are after, particularly since for the tiny minority of ageing Boomers that want that stuff, it's easier and cheaper to drive up to Llandudno, up to Cumbria or over the Skye bridge. I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

The answer to that question lies in the rest of your post, or at least some of it.  If the Island is serious about a tourist industry it needs to present itself as a place where we have many different attractions in one small place. 

We have options for camping, glamping, hotels, B&B's and holiday homes.  Whilst here visitors can try a range of different activities such as hiking/walking, sea canoeing, diving, sailing to name but a few options for outdoor activities.  You then have the history of the island in places such as the Laxey Wheel, Castle Rushen, Peel Castle, the Manx Museum, Steam and Electric Railways etc.  

There are very few places in the UK where you can have so much located in a small area which if we can get the fares right for travelling to and from the Island should make it an attractive place for families to visit.  I guess think of the whole Island as being a Center Parks.

I think the House of Mannanan needs a full scale review as it is very tired and many of the exhibits were not working last time I visited and many of them I remember being there when it opened.  I think the Nautical Museum is a hidden gem and the history of the building and the links to smuggling is fascinating.  I do think it is not marketed very well though and I do think that the Peggy needs to be preserved and presented in context.  I don't see any reason she could not be loaned out though as a promotional tool for the Island. 

Those who like to criticise our National Heritage should remember just how many people visit the UK's castles and historic monuments on an annual basis.  Our problem is the cost of getting here...

[The Bastard]

30 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

The answer to that question lies in the rest of your post, or at least some of it.  If the Island is serious about a tourist industry it needs to present itself as a place where we have many different attractions in one small place. 

We have options for camping, glamping, hotels, B&B's and holiday homes.  Whilst here visitors can try a range of different activities such as hiking/walking, sea canoeing, diving, sailing to name but a few options for outdoor activities.  You then have the history of the island in places such as the Laxey Wheel, Castle Rushen, Peel Castle, the Manx Museum, Steam and Electric Railways etc.  

There are very few places in the UK where you can have so much located in a small area which if we can get the fares right for travelling to and from the Island should make it an attractive place for families to visit.  I guess think of the whole Island as being a Center Parks.

I think the House of Mannanan needs a full scale review as it is very tired and many of the exhibits were not working last time I visited and many of them I remember being there when it opened.  I think the Nautical Museum is a hidden gem and the history of the building and the links to smuggling is fascinating.  I do think it is not marketed very well though and I do think that the Peggy needs to be preserved and presented in context.  I don't see any reason she could not be loaned out though as a promotional tool for the Island. 

Those who like to criticise our National Heritage should remember just how many people visit the UK's castles and historic monuments on an annual basis.  Our problem is the cost of getting here...

Nice thoughts, but you can do anything that you've mentioned (and more) in Wales, Ireland, Cornwall, Scotland or the Lake District. There's nothing unique here, Snowdonia has better walks and mountains, Ireland has better monuments and craic,  sea activities are ubiquitous around Cornwall, Scotland and Wales, Skye has a comparable island experience with a bridge to get there. We already have all the historic boats, castles, walks and outdoor activities, but nobody is coming here to make use of them, which says it all. The Boomer generation that wanted to do that sort of stuff are dying off. Nobody is criticising your national heritage, or the averageness of your outdoor activities, merely pointing out how unattractive (and uncompetitive) it is to the next generation of tourists that maybe want more than long walks and dusty, unloved museums with broken displays. Problem is with resurrecting tourism is that in the heyday of tourism, the majority of attractions were not Government-owned, they were profit-making businesses with Government providing the infrastructure around them to support the economy. Developing attractions required decades of gradual growth in tourism, until it reached a critical mass where  there were sufficient visitors to sustain the higher-end attractions market, which brought in the visitors in huge numbers. It's a chicken-and-egg situation - in a highly-competitive market with international travel easily available at low cost, tourists won't visit an expensive destination without sufficient attractions that are oriented towards tourists across the demographics, but it would be commercial suicide to set up a tourism enterprise without large numbers of tourists to support it in the first place.

[SleepyJoe]

15 hours ago, The Bastard said:

The island had 500,000 annual visitors at its peak, when there were few affordable alternatives, when most of the properties close to the sea were hotels and guest houses, wakes weeks were still running, there was a fleet of ferries, a huge working population centred around servicing the needs of tourists, and there were amusement parks, roller coasters, beauty contests, famous names in concert, resorts, tour companies, tramways, music halls, cinemas, nightclubs, ballrooms, bandstands, theatres, amusement arcades, tea gardens, boating lakes, cafes, campsites and tourist sites all over the island. We're never going to see those numbers again. Times have moved on, and going for a hill walk and an ice cream on the prom is no longer what tourists are after, particularly since for the tiny minority of ageing Boomers that want that stuff, it's easier and cheaper to drive up to Llandudno, up to Cumbria or over the Skye bridge. I have to ask seriously why, given the option to travel pretty much anywhere else at lower cost, people in the mainstream would choose to come here in their hundreds of thousands and more importantly, to spend their hard-earned holiday time looking at old boats and empty castles? 

Presumably the extra numbers will be coming here for medicinal cannabis

Can't see any other explanation for the huge increase in visitor numbers that Dr Allinson is projecting

I await the release of his reasoning - which is promised for early this year - with huge interest

[Andy Onchan]

36 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

The Boomer generation that wanted to do that sort of stuff are dying off. 

Speak for yourself!

[0bserver]

Growing tourism on the Isle of Man seems like a very convoluted argument to me. 

On one hand I can see people like @manxman1980 calling for investment (by Government) in things like the Peggy and what they see as tourist attractions. There's no denying that it's a serious amount of cash even to keep these things running year to year - I see a figure of £8.5m quoted just for running the railways each year. 

You can get a 7 night holiday in Spain for a family of 2 adults and 2 children for the same price as 7 nights in the Isle of Man. 

As @The Bastard(great username!) has pointed out there is massive competition from around the British Isles for exactly the same things that the Isle of Man can offer. Sure, there's this kind of thing that these attractions are bunched together within a small area - but that only really counts for something if you want this exact mix of attractions, and I think it's probably quite a small circle of people who would pick a holiday for that exact mix alone. 

So then we have the issue of being price competitive with places around the British Isles - a very big struggle when there's a £78m new ferry to pay for. 

If the argument is the economic benefit that visitors bring then it's a very small benefit. Wages in that sector are low so often need people to apply for income support from Government and low tax payments. 

For all the cost to the taxpayer and lack of real benefit to the economy it seems like a lot of effort for no real return.

Is there something I've missed?