Teachers mental health

[ballaughbiker]

I hope you're not suggesting a "Darren" ? 

[manxman34]

21 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

I hope you're not suggesting a "Darren" ? 

Or a J Arthur?

[jackwhite]

2 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I expect I'll be shot down in flames for even thinking this, but is anyone else concerned about this increased noise about 'mental health issues'? Not just in the teaching profession, but in almost every part of society.

I admit to being an old gammon, but I grew up admiring people who overcame anxiety and faced their fears head on - people like Scott of the Antarctic, Douglas Bader, Donald Campbell and numerous others who triumphed over adversity. Nowadays we look for reasons NOT to challenge ourselves and take responsibility. I say that as someone who has been on his knees many times both personally and professionally, when waving the white flag of surrender would have been a much more comfortable option than gritting my teeth, accepting that (at the time) my children and others relied on me, and trying my hardest to get things back on track.

I worry that the modern world is concentrating on the wrong things - gender pronouns, identity politics and an alleged climate emergency amongst others - and failing to teach resilience. We've so bought into the lie that our children can be 'whatever they want' that aspirations are often unreachable, or that the world is going to go up in flames. What we should be telling our kids is that life can be hard, that failure is just a natural part of learning, and that to be an adult you need to learn how to cope with adversity.

You should be shot down in flames for it. 

Spoken like someone who has been fortunate never to suffer mental health problems in their life.

For a politician you're severely out of touch with modern society.

[Passing Time]

15 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

You should be shot down in flames for it. 

Spoken like someone who has been fortunate never to suffer mental health problems in their life.

For a politician you're severely out of touch with modern society.

Some clearly can't stand the truth...

[jackwhite]

1 minute ago, Passing Time said:

Some clearly can't stand the truth...

Quite happy with the truth. 

Can give you some interesting facts and figures around suicide, self harm and the like which are only partially truthful, in that they are only reported cases.

It's dangerous attitudes like his (from someone who is in the public eye) that lead to people being afraid to speak out.

The issues may be more widely reported these days and discussed (not widely enough still in my opinion) but they existed in the days of the 'old gammons' as the poster has rightly identified himself. It's just that attitudes made them afraid to speak out.

I do work in this area and have seen the suffering caused. Young children these days are having issues which are continuing with all their lives. To dismiss it is dangerous at best.

[ManxTaxPayer]

26 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

You should be shot down in flames for it. 

Spoken like someone who has been fortunate never to suffer mental health problems in their life.

For a politician you're severely out of touch with modern society.

He's just trying to be all Clarkson on it. Really transparent. 

[The Voice of Reason]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:45 PM, HeliX said:

Again, as mentioned, if people leave a company the profits go down. If people leave teaching, our children suffer. They are not comparable. 

Well not really.

If an employee is not productive or doesn’t add any value, then (assuming income and other costs remain the same) company profits should rise when they leave, due to the reduction in the wage bill. People are always leaving companies which experience growth in profits year on year.

Similarly if a teacher who makes no contribution, or even a negative one, leaves the profession then the general level of education children receive will be enhanced.

 

[jackwhite]

8 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well not really.

If an employee is not productive or doesn’t add any value, then (assuming income and other costs remain the same) company profits should rise when they leave, due to the reduction in the wage bill. People are always leaving companies which experience growth in profits year on year.

Similarly if a teacher who makes no contribution, or even a negative one, leaves the profession then the general level of education children receive will be enhanced.

 

What if said teacher is replaced by an equally non-contributing one? 

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

Quite happy with the truth. 

Can give you some interesting facts and figures around suicide, self harm and the like which are only partially truthful, in that they are only reported cases.

It's dangerous attitudes like his (from someone who is in the public eye) that lead to people being afraid to speak out.

The issues may be more widely reported these days and discussed (not widely enough still in my opinion) but they existed in the days of the 'old gammons' as the poster has rightly identified himself. It's just that attitudes made them afraid to speak out.

I do work in this area and have seen the suffering caused. Young children these days are having issues which are continuing with all their lives. To dismiss it is dangerous at best.

There are genuine cases that cannot be denied but what is also happening is that it is the easiest "excuse" to hide behind. Today's children are being taught there are no winners and no losers. When they get out into the real world they get an almighty wake up call. I've seen it in young children who throw tantrums whenever they can't get their own way. It starts when they are very young and is allowed to continue.

[jackwhite]

7 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

There are genuine cases that cannot be denied but what is also happening is that it is the easiest "excuse" to hide behind. Today's children are being taught there are no winners and no losers. When they get out into the real world they get an almighty wake up call. I've seen it in young children who throw tantrums whenever they can't get their own way. It starts when they are very young and is allowed to continue.

I'm not entirely sure this is the case and think it's something that is far too easily dismissed.

I think people who didn't grow up with it, or haven't suffered from it, just simply don't understand

 

[HeliX]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well not really.

If an employee is not productive or doesn’t add any value, then (assuming income and other costs remain the same) company profits should rise when they leave, due to the reduction in the wage bill. People are always leaving companies which experience growth in profits year on year.

Similarly if a teacher who makes no contribution, or even a negative one, leaves the profession then the general level of education children receive will be enhanced.

 

And what if the employee is productive and adds value? As most do. Not sure why you're laser focusing on the ones that don't.

 

If enough teachers leave so that any level of illness in the remaining ones results in entire years being sent home from school, how is that an enhancement in the children's education? If key teachers leave, and are unable to be replaced, how does having fewer qualified and experienced teachers in certain subjects enhance the level of education children receive? 

Teaching and office jobs cannot be compared on these grounds.

[HeliX]

5 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I expect I'll be shot down in flames for even thinking this, but is anyone else concerned about this increased noise about 'mental health issues'? Not just in the teaching profession, but in almost every part of society.

I admit to being an old gammon, but I grew up admiring people who overcame anxiety and faced their fears head on - people like Scott of the Antarctic, Douglas Bader, Donald Campbell and numerous others who triumphed over adversity. Nowadays we look for reasons NOT to challenge ourselves and take responsibility. I say that as someone who has been on his knees many times both personally and professionally, when waving the white flag of surrender would have been a much more comfortable option than gritting my teeth, accepting that (at the time) my children and others relied on me, and trying my hardest to get things back on track.

I worry that the modern world is concentrating on the wrong things - gender pronouns, identity politics and an alleged climate emergency amongst others - and failing to teach resilience. We've so bought into the lie that our children can be 'whatever they want' that aspirations are often unreachable, or that the world is going to go up in flames. What we should be telling our kids is that life can be hard, that failure is just a natural part of learning, and that to be an adult you need to learn how to cope with adversity.

"I grew up admiring people who overcame anxiety and faced their fears head on"

This hasn't changed.

"people like Scott of the Antarctic, Douglas Bader, Donald Campbell and numerous others who triumphed over adversity"

Overcoming serious mental health issues is quite extraordinary, hence the people who manage it becoming pretty famous for doing so. Making it the expectation is dangerous, however.

"Nowadays we look for reasons NOT to challenge ourselves and take responsibility."

No we don't.

"I say that as someone who has been on his knees many times both personally and professionally, when waving the white flag of surrender would have been a much more comfortable option than gritting my teeth, accepting that (at the time) my children and others relied on me, and trying my hardest to get things back on track."

The pressure and stress felt by having your business struggle, or the sadness felt through grief, or heartache, or pain, whilst all very real, are not mental illness. Likening the two groups is a bit naive. One can almost always be overcome, and one may never be.

Resilience is taught in our schools. And instilled in most homes. But I fear you don't understand the gulf between mental illness and having a bit of a shit year. They are irreconcilable. 

[DrunkenMonkey]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=359731286160038&id=100063695075266

 

Year 9 students at Ramsey Grammar School are being ask to work from home tomorrow and on Monday (March 21) as the school struggles with staff absences.

Edited March 17, 2022 by DrunkenMonkey

[manxman34]

7 minutes ago, HeliX said:

"I grew up admiring people who overcame anxiety and faced their fears head on"

This hasn't changed.

"people like Scott of the Antarctic, Douglas Bader, Donald Campbell and numerous others who triumphed over adversity"

Overcoming serious mental health issues is quite extraordinary, hence the people who manage it becoming pretty famous for doing so. Making it the expectation is dangerous, however.

"Nowadays we look for reasons NOT to challenge ourselves and take responsibility."

No we don't.

"I say that as someone who has been on his knees many times both personally and professionally, when waving the white flag of surrender would have been a much more comfortable option than gritting my teeth, accepting that (at the time) my children and others relied on me, and trying my hardest to get things back on track."

The pressure and stress felt by having your business struggle, or the sadness felt through grief, or heartache, or pain, whilst all very real, are not mental illness. Likening the two groups is a bit naive. One can almost always be overcome, and one may never be.

Resilience is taught in our schools. And instilled in most homes. But I fear you don't understand the gulf between mental illness and having a bit of a shit year. They are irreconcilable. 

Re some of the 'heroes' - all from Wikipedia:

Never a person to hide his opinions, Bader also became controversial for his political viewpoints. A staunch conservative, his trenchantly expressed views on such subjects as juvenile delinquency, capital punishment, apartheid and Rhodesia's defiance of the Commonwealth (he was a strong supporter of Ian Smith's white minority regime) attracted much criticism.^[151] During the Suez Crisis, Bader travelled to New Zealand. Some of the more recent African countries to join the Commonwealth had been critical of the decision to intervene in Egypt; he replied that they could "bloody well climb back up their trees".^[148]

During a trip to South Africa in November 1965, Bader said that if he had been in Rhodesia when it made its declaration of independence, he "would have had serious thoughts about changing my citizenship."^[148] Later, Bader also wrote the foreword to Hans-Ulrich Rudel's biography Stuka Pilot. Even when it emerged that Rudel was a fervent supporter of the Nazi Party, Bader said that prior knowledge would not have changed his mind about his

 

Campbell was intensely superstitious, hating the colour green, the number thirteen and believing nothing good ever happened on a Friday. He also had some interest in the paranormal, which he nurtured as a member of the Ghost Club.^[7]

In 1966, Reginald Pound, the first biographer given access to Scott's original sledging journal, revealed personal failings which cast a new light on Scott,^[118] although Pound continued to endorse his heroism, writing of "a splendid sanity that would not be subdued".^[120] Another book critical of Scott, David Thomson's Scott's Men, was released in 1977. In Thomson's view, Scott was not a great man, "at least, not until near the end";^[121] his planning is described as "haphazard" and "flawed",^[122] his leadership characterised by lack of foresight.^[123] Thus by the late 1970s, in Jones's words, "Scott's complex personality had been revealed and his methods questioned".^[118]

In 1979 came the first extreme^[124] attack on Scott, from Roland Huntford's dual biography Scott and Amundsen in which Scott is depicted as a "heroic bungler".^[125] Huntford's thesis had an immediate impact, becoming the contemporary orthodoxy.^[126] After Huntford's book, several other mostly negative books about Captain Scott were published; Francis Spufford, in a 1996 history not wholly antagonistic to Scott, refers to "devastating evidence of bungling",^[127] concluding that "Scott doomed his companions, then covered his tracks with rhetoric".^[128] Travel writer Paul Theroux summarised Scott as "confused and demoralised ... an enigma to his men, unprepared and a bungler".^[129] This decline in Scott's reputation was accompanied by a corresponding rise in that of his erstwhile rival Shackleton, at first in the United States but eventually in Britain as well.^[130] A 2002 nationwide poll in the United Kingdom to discover the "100 Greatest Britons" showed Shackleton in eleventh place, Scott well down the list at 54th.^[130]

[jackwhite]

13 minutes ago, manxman34 said:

Re some of the 'heroes' - all from Wikipedia:

Never a person to hide his opinions, Bader also became controversial for his political viewpoints. A staunch conservative, his trenchantly expressed views on such subjects as juvenile delinquency, capital punishment, apartheid and Rhodesia's defiance of the Commonwealth (he was a strong supporter of Ian Smith's white minority regime) attracted much criticism.^[151] During the Suez Crisis, Bader travelled to New Zealand. Some of the more recent African countries to join the Commonwealth had been critical of the decision to intervene in Egypt; he replied that they could "bloody well climb back up their trees".^[148]

During a trip to South Africa in November 1965, Bader said that if he had been in Rhodesia when it made its declaration of independence, he "would have had serious thoughts about changing my citizenship."^[148] Later, Bader also wrote the foreword to Hans-Ulrich Rudel's biography Stuka Pilot. Even when it emerged that Rudel was a fervent supporter of the Nazi Party, Bader said that prior knowledge would not have changed his mind about his

 

Campbell was intensely superstitious, hating the colour green, the number thirteen and believing nothing good ever happened on a Friday. He also had some interest in the paranormal, which he nurtured as a member of the Ghost Club.^[7]

In 1966, Reginald Pound, the first biographer given access to Scott's original sledging journal, revealed personal failings which cast a new light on Scott,^[118] although Pound continued to endorse his heroism, writing of "a splendid sanity that would not be subdued".^[120] Another book critical of Scott, David Thomson's Scott's Men, was released in 1977. In Thomson's view, Scott was not a great man, "at least, not until near the end";^[121] his planning is described as "haphazard" and "flawed",^[122] his leadership characterised by lack of foresight.^[123] Thus by the late 1970s, in Jones's words, "Scott's complex personality had been revealed and his methods questioned".^[118]

In 1979 came the first extreme^[124] attack on Scott, from Roland Huntford's dual biography Scott and Amundsen in which Scott is depicted as a "heroic bungler".^[125] Huntford's thesis had an immediate impact, becoming the contemporary orthodoxy.^[126] After Huntford's book, several other mostly negative books about Captain Scott were published; Francis Spufford, in a 1996 history not wholly antagonistic to Scott, refers to "devastating evidence of bungling",^[127] concluding that "Scott doomed his companions, then covered his tracks with rhetoric".^[128] Travel writer Paul Theroux summarised Scott as "confused and demoralised ... an enigma to his men, unprepared and a bungler".^[129] This decline in Scott's reputation was accompanied by a corresponding rise in that of his erstwhile rival Shackleton, at first in the United States but eventually in Britain as well.^[130] A 2002 nationwide poll in the United Kingdom to discover the "100 Greatest Britons" showed Shackleton in eleventh place, Scott well down the list at 54th.^[130]

Not surprising Stu admires then, seem to have a lot in common!