0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: The timing is unfortunate, though the issues have been much longer than the last 2 years. The answer to many people having shit pay and conditions isn't to continue to give all of them shit pay and conditions. It's very odd to me that every time something like this comes up, about any union really, people are up in arms that something might improve for people other than themselves, and that it shouldn't. It should. And it should improve for them, too. Because they know how it will play out. Public Sector workers throw the toys out of the pram - Government cave in and give them a pay rise and then services get cut or taxes go up to pay for it - meanwhile the private sector workers are left footing the bill and being worse off. If you apply the logic of giving everyone across the board massive pay rises then you would end up with a hyper inflation scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, manxman1980 said: Explain to me how Teacher's earn respect then? They all have to have a certain level of academic achievement and must complete Teaching Qualifications and Teaching practice as well as being subject to classroom observations and OFSTED inspections. Do their jobs. Be grateful they got 100% pay through Covid. Be grateful to have so many holidays. Try to raise standards in failing schools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, 0bserver said: Because they know how it will play out. Public Sector workers throw the toys out of the pram - Government cave in and give them a pay rise and then services get cut or taxes go up to pay for it - meanwhile the private sector workers are left footing the bill and being worse off. If you apply the logic of giving everyone across the board massive pay rises then you would end up with a hyper inflation scenario. Who said massive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, 0bserver said: Do their jobs. Be grateful they got 100% pay through Covid. Be grateful to have so many holidays. Try to raise standards in failing schools. Guess what... They were teaching during the pandemic and adapting to new methods of doing so. Many were also going into school to teach children of essential workers at the hub schools. The holidays? Sure they appear to get a lot but many teachers are still doing training, planning, preparation, marking etc during the school holidays. It is also the most expensive time to travel abroad so unlike people in the private sector they cannot take a holiday when the travel prices are lower. As for raising standards, all teachers would like to do so, however, if the children are coming into the school have not been taught basic skills at home or have been taught that teachers are not to be respected then how do you think that is going to happen? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, 0bserver said: Do their jobs. Be grateful they got 100% pay through Covid. Be grateful to have so many holidays. Try to raise standards in failing schools. Holidays that most of them work through a significant portion of. Pay during Covid where they were still working? Everyone who worked through Covid got paid. Who was it who looked after key worker's children in the first lockdown? Teachers have little control over standards in schools. The issues there are from the top down. I'm not seeing any justification for underpaying for years here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, HeliX said: Pay during Covid where they were still working? Everyone who worked through Covid got paid. Not everyone got to choose whether they worked or not during Covid. 13 minutes ago, HeliX said: Teachers have little control over standards in schools. They set the standards, it's poor quality teaching that leads to a drop in standards. 13 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'm not seeing any justification for underpaying for years here. They haven't been underpaid, they just think they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, 0bserver said: They set the standards, it's poor quality teaching that leads to a drop in standards. I don't know what you do for work, however, imagine having a plan for the day for the topics/tasks that you need to get through that day. During that day you encounter many challenges that prevent you from getting through everything such as poor discipline from your team. Instead of wanting to do the work they are playing games on their mobiles, browsing the internet, or chatting to others including those who want to work and distracting them. Now in the normal work environment you have some authority to address these issues, however, in a classroom you don't. Instead of an employee being paid to do the work you want them to you have a group of people who may not want to be there. They know you have no real authority beyond telling them off or in worst case scenario having them excluded which really doesn't help anyone. They would think noting of telling you to fuck off when you are simply trying to take a register. This behaviour is learnt from the parents, who at the end of the day will collar you and complain that there precious urchin is not learning/developing as expected but when you try to explain that their precious urchin has been running around the classroom shouting and screaming at everyone they dismiss it and blame you. Fancy trying teaching? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, 0bserver said: Not everyone got to choose whether they worked or not during Covid. They set the standards, it's poor quality teaching that leads to a drop in standards. They haven't been underpaid, they just think they have. That doesn't change the reason they were paid. Teachers have very little say in what is on the curriculum or what practices and standards are implemented. 3 years of degree, couple of years of teacher training, however long as an NQT, for 22k seems underpaid to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I don't know what you do for work, however, imagine having a plan for the day for the topics/tasks that you need to get through that day. During that day you encounter many challenges that prevent you from getting through everything such as poor discipline from your team. Instead of wanting to do the work they are playing games on their mobiles, browsing the internet, or chatting to others including those who want to work and distracting them. Now in the normal work environment you have some authority to address these issues, however, in a classroom you don't. Instead of an employee being paid to do the work you want them to you have a group of people who may not want to be there. They know you have no real authority beyond telling them off or in worst case scenario having them excluded which really doesn't help anyone. They would think noting of telling you to fuck off when you are simply trying to take a register. This behaviour is learnt from the parents, who at the end of the day will collar you and complain that there precious urchin is not learning/developing as expected but when you try to explain that their precious urchin has been running around the classroom shouting and screaming at everyone they dismiss it and blame you. Fancy trying teaching? Sounds like a basic lack of discipline . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, 0bserver said: Sounds like a basic lack of discipline . What power does a teacher have to discipline a child? Give me an example of how you would discipline a school child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: What power does a teacher have to discipline a child? Give me an example of how you would discipline a school child? A bit creepy to ask me that really! It might be a bit weird if I disciplined a school child to be honest given that I'm not a teacher! If teachers are unhappy then perhaps they should get together and make some demands about discipline - or does that avenue only work for pay rises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, 0bserver said: If teachers are unhappy then perhaps they should get together and make some demands about discipline - or does that avenue only work for pay rises? The unions did make many comments and voice many concerns about discipline and working conditions, but they don't grab headlines because it's harder to make people angry at teachers over those comments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-in-man Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, 0bserver said: Health service. Social care workers Police Mental health workers So, teachers then. They do all that AND teach. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, 0bserver said: A bit creepy to ask me that really! It might be a bit weird if I disciplined a school child to be honest given that I'm not a teacher! If teachers are unhappy then perhaps they should get together and make some demands about discipline - or does that avenue only work for pay rises? You don't have an answer do you? You know very well I was asking you to put yourself in the position of being a teacher and instead you swerve the question and come back with "a bit creepy to ask me that". I thought you had all the answers given how critical you have been. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You don't have an answer do you? You know very well I was asking you to put yourself in the position of being a teacher and instead you swerve the question and come back with "a bit creepy to ask me that". I thought you had all the answers given how critical you have been. it was a bit creepy to be fair. It's a lack of discipline that has become institutionalised in the education system. Teachers can change that if they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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