Teachers mental health

[Gladys]

I see one union leader is using posts on MN&P FB page as a barometer of public opinion.  Dear lord!

[manxman1980]

11 hours ago, Banker said:

Why’s the sickness absence so high then & how many dismissed for attendance issues?

Have you forgotten we have just had two years of a global pandemic which has driven up absence rates across all sectors? 

Guidance was for people with cold/flu like symptoms not to attend work so of course short term absences have spiked and because this was guidance from employers you cannot then discipline employees for doing what they were told.

Go look up the details https://www.cipd.co.uk/Images/health-wellbeing-work-report-2022_tcm18-108440.pdf 

57% of the respondents to that survey were in the Private Sector so don't try and argue this is isolated to the Public Sector.

[Banker]

8 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Have you forgotten we have just had two years of a global pandemic which has driven up absence rates across all sectors? 

Guidance was for people with cold/flu like symptoms not to attend work so of course short term absences have spiked and because this was guidance from employers you cannot then discipline employees for doing what they were told.

Go look up the details https://www.cipd.co.uk/Images/health-wellbeing-work-report-2022_tcm18-108440.pdf 

57% of the respondents to that survey were in the Private Sector so don't try and argue this is isolated to the Public Sector.

Talking prepandemic & public sector also took the piss during pandemic!!

[manxman1980]

5 minutes ago, Banker said:

Talking prepandemic & public sector also took the piss during pandemic!!

I work in the private sector and can tell you that people were taking the piss pre-pandemic there as well.  If they didn't then companies would not need absence triggers and policies.

I have even disciplined staff who were trying to play the absence triggers and avoid disciplinary action.  That is why most absence policies will also refer to "any other unacceptable pattern of absence".  

You need to start living in the real world and realise that absence rates in the public sector are not much different than the private sector.

You also need to realise that certain conditions, such as gastro-enteritis, in certain settings such as schools and nurseries have a 48 exclusion period (in private and public sectors).  Obviously such exclusion periods mean longer absences for conditions when compared to other places of work that don't have an exclusion period.

[Banker]

5 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I work in the private sector and can tell you that people were taking the piss pre-pandemic there as well.  If they didn't then companies would not need absence triggers and policies.

I have even disciplined staff who were trying to play the absence triggers and avoid disciplinary action.  That is why most absence policies will also refer to "any other unacceptable pattern of absence".  

You need to start living in the real world and realise that absence rates in the public sector are not much different than the private sector.

You also need to realise that certain conditions, such as gastro-enteritis, in certain settings such as schools and nurseries have a 48 exclusion period (in private and public sectors).  Obviously such exclusion periods mean longer absences for conditions when compared to other places of work that don't have an exclusion period.

From latest ONS statistics published March 2021 for 2020 expect 2021 figures to be similar 

Sickness absence rates for workers in the public and private sectors stood at 2.7% and 1.6% respectively in 2020. The rate for public sector employees has been consistently higher than that for private sector employees, b

[manxman1980]

1.1% is not significantly higher

[Banker]

Just now, manxman1980 said:

1.1% is not significantly higher

It is & it’s always higher in public sector!! Last IOM statistics 

The sickness absence rate stood at 2.0% in 2018. Rates for workers within the public and private sector stood at 2.7% and 1.8% respectively in 2018. The rate for public sector employees has been consistently higher than the private sector since 1995.

Basically public sector workers have an extra week off each year as no one checks!!

[The Phantom]

16 hours ago, The Phantom said:

I actually spoke to a GP friend about longterm illness and sign-off not so long ago, purely out of interest as I was tired of seeing people quite clearly taking the piss. 

He actually quite honestly said, "if they think they can't work and are adamant they can't go back, then it's really not worth my time an effort to try and intervene.  I'll just sign whatever they want me to sign to get them out of my surgery, so I can then deal with patients that I can actually help and want to be helped".

It's a fair point really and I think a bit harsh to suggest that the Docs are somehow helping them.  You ever tried helping someone that doesn't want to be helped?  How much time should they waste trying, when there will be patients that actually need their help?

 

9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I work in the private sector and can tell you that people were taking the piss pre-pandemic there as well.  If they didn't then companies would not need absence triggers and policies.

I have even disciplined staff who were trying to play the absence triggers and avoid disciplinary action.  That is why most absence policies will also refer to "any other unacceptable pattern of absence".  

You need to start living in the real world and realise that absence rates in the public sector are not much different than the private sector.

You also need to realise that certain conditions, such as gastro-enteritis, in certain settings such as schools and nurseries have a 48 exclusion period (in private and public sectors).  Obviously such exclusion periods mean longer absences for conditions when compared to other places of work that don't have an exclusion period.

Which is why I was chatting to a GP about it.  I'm private sector, so is my wife.  We both work at places where there are staff quite clearly taking the piss and getting signed off longterm will all kinds of spurious ailments.  Then they are spotted gallivanting around somewhere, clearly not sick!  Also bear in mind that most jobs nowadays are desk based, so if you've got a dodgy knee or gamy back, how does that stop you working?  If you can sit on the sofa and watch Loose Women, you can sit at a computer and do officey things! It really is beyond me. 

Then there is the problem that it's so difficult to A) prove they're bullshitting; and B) actually firing them for never coming to work. 

 

 

[manxman1980]

31 minutes ago, Banker said:

The rate for public sector employees has been consistently higher than the private sector since 1995.

What changed in 1995?  That seems a very random cut off period or are you just selecting data which supports your theory?

Don't forget that just because you seem to work for a shitty and uncaring employer that this is not the picture for everyone else where private sector companies are investing a lot of time and effort in promoting health and wellbeing in the workplace.

What I am looking forward to is the spike in absences that is going to hit soon when hygiene measures return to pre-pandemic norms and people drag themselves into work full of colds and flu and spread it throughout the workforce causing even more absence and reduced productivity.

[Banker]

38 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

What changed in 1995?  That seems a very random cut off period or are you just selecting data which supports your theory?

Don't forget that just because you seem to work for a shitty and uncaring employer that this is not the picture for everyone else where private sector companies are investing a lot of time and effort in promoting health and wellbeing in the workplace.

What I am looking forward to is the spike in absences that is going to hit soon when hygiene measures return to pre-pandemic norms and people drag themselves into work full of colds and flu and spread it throughout the workforce causing even more absence and reduced productivity.

That’s a quote from the official report not me!! 1995 was probably when they introduced very generous sick policy 😀

[manxman1980]

18 minutes ago, Banker said:

That’s a quote from the official report not me!! 1995 was probably when they introduced very generous sick policy 😀

Public sector terms and conditions have been getting worse not better so that is incorrect.

[Banker]

26 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Public sector terms and conditions have been getting worse not better so that is incorrect.

Obviously a senior civil servant on 6 weeks holidays, 6 months full sick pay, privilege day T Xmas, no performance assessment, pay rise every year & final salary pension for minimal contribution , try getting that in private sector!

[HeliX]

22 minutes ago, Banker said:

Obviously a senior civil servant on 6 weeks holidays, 6 months full sick pay, privilege day T Xmas, no performance assessment, pay rise every year & final salary pension for minimal contribution , try getting that in private sector!

I get all of that except Christmas and final salary pension in the private sector. I also get paid more than my public sector counterparts.

No performance assessment is generally a bad thing for employees by the way, we're finally bringing one in at work. If they're done the way they should be, they're for the benefit of the employee not the company. The disciplinary process is the company's version of the performance assessment.

[wrighty]

33 minutes ago, Banker said:

Obviously a senior civil servant on 6 weeks holidays, 6 months full sick pay, privilege day T Xmas, no performance assessment, pay rise every year & final salary pension for minimal contribution , try getting that in private sector!

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder over the T&Cs of employment in the public sector.  Why is this?

As others have said, there's not that much of a difference in the private sector, and if public was so good, why is there a recruitment crisis in some areas such as nursing, care assistants, teaching etc?

[Banker]

32 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder over the T&Cs of employment in the public sector.  Why is this?

As others have said, there's not that much of a difference in the private sector, and if public was so good, why is there a recruitment crisis in some areas such as nursing, care assistants, teaching etc?

Not really,I pointed out the large differences in amount of sickness absence public sector take compared to private sector & it went on to T&cs.

I don’t think most of public compare nurses, teachers & care workers to civil servants where there is certainly no recruitment issues!! All the sectors you mention have recruitment issues everywhere & particularly on islands where housing prices are too high.

 We need to address housing costs for key workers although I agree frontline nursing & care staff should be paid more