2112 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Top news in the local newspaper and the NPM is the Tynpotwald proposal to scrap prayers before a sitting of the HOK etc. Inclusiveness has been bandied, which is hilarious coming from a group which if presented with alternative people of BAME persuasions and religious beliefs, would vote for their mates. Personally I’m not too bothered, but it’s an old custom that certain MHKs of the woke brigade want rid of. I don’t believe it causes offence and it isn’t as though it’s a church service. It could be argued that school assemblies should be scrapped in the name of inclusion. I would add that there are many issues affecting the island which are far more serious, and by arsing around focusing on something which isn’t broken, causes no real problems, shows some of those in power, their real priorities and thinking. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Some of them need all the help that God can give 8 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said: Some of them need all the help that God can give And so will the rest of us.... 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 2112 said: I would add that there are many issues affecting the island which are far more serious, and by arsing around focusing on something which isn’t broken, causes no real problems, shows some of those in power, their real priorities and thinking. I don't think the vote is going to take much time and if successful will save time at the start of each meeting. I don't really buy this constant "bleat" that every time a reform is proposed to how Tynwald works it's wasting time - it only meets one a month! There's loads of time! Sit the next day or the next. I don't mind the service from a principled point of view and it is does give a bit of heritage razzmatazz to the affair. Perhaps it could happen 15 minutes before the official start and it would be optional. Edited February 3, 2022 by Declan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Declan said: I don't think the vote is going to take much time and if successful will save time at the start of each meeting. I don't really buy this constant "bleat" that every time a reform is proposed to how Tynwald works it's wasting time - it only meets one a month! There's loads of time! Sit the next day or the next. I don't mind the service from a point of view and it is does give a bit of heritage razzmatazz to the affair. Perhaps it could happen 15 minutes before the official start and it would be optional. A reasonable suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Daphne Caine brought this up when she was first elected. I don’t see the harm in it it is just more woke nonsense the Speaker seems to be more or less against anything at the moment sanctimonious little twerp and a hypocrite to boot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Gay'n Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 20 minutes ago, 2112 said: Top news in the local newspaper and the NPM is the Tynpotwald proposal to scrap prayers before a sitting of the HOK etc. Inclusiveness has been bandied, which is hilarious coming from a group which if presented with alternative people of BAME persuasions and religious beliefs, would vote for their mates. Personally I’m not too bothered, but it’s an old custom that certain MHKs of the woke brigade want rid of. I don’t believe it causes offence and it isn’t as though it’s a church service. It could be argued that school assemblies should be scrapped in the name of inclusion. I would add that there are many issues affecting the island which are far more serious, and by arsing around focusing on something which isn’t broken, causes no real problems, shows some of those in power, their real priorities and thinking. I'm not sure if it's about inclusiveness. Surely the 'tradition' is just anachronistic, if not plain silly, now? While they are at it, why not kick the man in a dress out of Tynwald too? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Can we get rid of the automatic seat for a Church representative in Tynwald yet? 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, Declan said: I don't think the vote is going to take much time and if successful will save time at the start of each meeting. I don't really buy this constant "bleat" that every time a reform is proposed to how Tynwald works it's wasting time - it only meets one a month! There's loads of time! Sit the next day or the next. I don't mind the service from a principled point of view and it is does give a bit of heritage razzmatazz to the affair. Perhaps it could happen 15 minutes before the official start and it would be optional. Agreed Declan. There is no reason on earth why Tynwald has to sit once a month. Given the amount of legislation that the CM wants to get through this admin's term then I think they are going to struggle to get it all done. Doing away with five minutes (at most) at the beginning of the sitting is just bonkers. And as others have said, they're going to need all the help they can get! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, hissingsid said: Daphne Caine brought this up when she was first elected. I don’t see the harm in it it is just more woke nonsense the Speaker seems to be more or less against anything at the moment sanctimonious little twerp and a hypocrite to boot. It's not woke nonsense, it's recognising that many people don't hold a religious belief and its daft expecting them to sit there hypocritically pretending to prey. Personally, it's a bit like saying "hello to the fairies" I think it has a place as a bit of traditional superstition that I don't mind observing for cultural reasons, but I don't think it should be compulsory or hard wired into our constitution. 7 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Are they going to scrap the church service on July 5? In all honesty in a modern all inclusive and woke society, some would argue it’s a waste of time. It’s tradition and I don’t think it’s broken, but maybe it will save the island some money. Perhaps the traditional Tynwald Day ceremony could be eliminated and the laws promulgated in the Tynpotwald Building? That would save money as well. What are the cost benefits of these traditions, what do they bring to the economy? By scrapping prayers, will it increase productivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 34 minutes ago, HeliX said: Can we get rid of the automatic seat for a Church representative in Tynwald yet? For once I agree with you on this matter. It’s not needed in today’s society. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, Declan said: I don't think the vote is going to take much time and if successful will save time at the start of each meeting. I don't really buy this constant "bleat" that every time a reform is proposed to how Tynwald works it's wasting time - it only meets one a month! There's loads of time! Sit the next day or the next. I don't mind the service from a principled point of view and it is does give a bit of heritage razzmatazz to the affair. Perhaps it could happen 15 minutes before the official start and it would be optional. This only applies to the Keys not to Tynwald where the Bishop will continue to provide the service. Prayers would normally be said by the Chaplain to the Keys, who is normally the Vicar of St Georges who just pops along Hill Street for five minutes (it's probably the biggest congregation they get all day). But that post and hence the Chaplaincy is vacant at the moment and Juan has to read out the sacred texts. They do have to reply "Lord have mercy upon us", which some may feel appropriate. I've just timed it from the audio of Tuesday's Keys and it was 80 seconds long, so it's hardly taking up a lot of time. It's right at the start so presumably hardcore atheists can slip into their seats afterwards. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 17 minutes ago, Declan said: its daft expecting them to sit there hypocritically pretending to prey. Taxpayer beware. They're not pretending. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I'm not religious at all but the prayers reinforce a moral obligation to do what is right, maybe they could be replaced with a reminder of the obligations which the house has to the electorate? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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