Barlow Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Your post underlines my point, which is that it isn't yet time. The Island is being taken over but they could perhaps wait until we are dead before making such smug changes to our 'quaint' way of life and customary way of doing things.. I can't as such describe the nouveau Manx, but there are plenty in Tynwald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, Barlow said: Your post underlines my point, which is that it isn't yet time. The Island is being taken over but they could perhaps wait until we are dead before making such smug changes to our 'quaint' way of life and customary way of doing things.. I can't as such describe the nouveau Manx, but there are plenty in Tynwald. The island isn't being "taken over", it's being inherited. Why should people have to wait for the retired generation to expire before being able to shape the place they live in? The island should be shaped by those in their 20s-40s. Waiting until those people are instead in their 60s-80s, replacing the current crop of 60-80s seems inane. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 And it's not about this 80 seconds of time, it's about the symbolism and requirement. Would the proceedings actually be any different without the leading prayer? 1 minute ago, Barlow said: I can't as such describe the nouveau Manx, but there are plenty in Tynwald. How would you know if you can't describe them? 🤔 Sounds like you're looking without seeing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 The ones 'not originally from around these parts'. Of course suggesting such a thing gets the wokes all jumpy and snowflaky, but I'm not sure why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, HeliX said: The island isn't being "taken over", it's being inherited. Why should people have to wait for the retired generation to expire before being able to shape the place they live in? The island should be shaped by those in their 20s-40s. Waiting until those people are instead in their 60s-80s, replacing the current crop of 60-80s seems inane. No. The word inherited is wrong. It might suit your agenda, but it is wrong. Taken over is about right. There are plenty of other phrases and words which might fit but would be inappropriate. You say retired generation I would say incumbents or current occupiers. First they started taking our prayers away. Next they'll be banning salted herrin' and skerry blues Edited February 8, 2022 by Barlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, Barlow said: No. The word inherited is wrong. It might suit your agenda, but it is wrong. Taken over is about right. There are plenty of other phrases and words which might fit but would be inappropriate. You say retired generation I would say incumbents or current occupiers. First they started taking our prayers away. Nest they'll be banning salted herrin' and skerry blues If you did a poll of 20-40 year olds who are at least 3 generations Manx, and it came back roughly the same as the current census in terms of Religion, would you still resist the change? Slippery slope arguments are daft when there is no comparison between the things you're mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Barlow said: The ones 'not originally from around these parts'. Ah, bloody come-overs, again... 4 minutes ago, Barlow said: Of course suggesting such a thing gets the wokes all jumpy and snowflaky... Eh? The appeal to tradition may be persuasive to some but the whole thing has become an anachronism and inimical to a modern, pluralistic secular democracy and equally welcoming to all... https://www.secularism.org.uk/end-government-prayers/ Have a read of the link if you really do want to know why a great many people want change... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, quilp said: Ah, bloody come-overs, again... Eh? The appeal to tradition may be persuasive to some but the whole thing has become an anachronism and inimical to a modern, pluralistic secular democracy and equally welcoming to all... https://www.secularism.org.uk/end-government-prayers/ Have a read of the link if you really do want to know why a great many people want change... I forgot in addition to the prayers in the HOK and Tynwald, Tynwald Day (which I am sure will next be in the firing line) Religious Leanjngs, Rememberance Sunday - annual service at St John (I wonder if some of our pathetic lot are Stop the War Coalition members, and prefer the white poppy, to the red one), and the Tynwald Carol Service. Slowly but surely traditions will be ended and the island will have less traditions than the adjacent isle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Fuck tradition let's dance... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 5 hours ago, HeliX said: Good. Tradition is a poor defence of an action. Either something stands up by itself or it doesn't. I knew we would agree on something if I waited long enough. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Clutching at straws a little 2112? Forcing religion on people at any event would be as bad as banning religion all together? Live and let live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 29 minutes ago, 2112 said: I forgot in addition to the prayers in the HOK and Tynwald, Tynwald Day (which I am sure will next be in the firing line) Religious Leanjngs, Rememberance Sunday - annual service at St John (I wonder if some of our pathetic lot are Stop the War Coalition members, and prefer the white poppy, to the red one), and the Tynwald Carol Service. Slowly but surely traditions will be ended and the island will have less traditions than the adjacent isle. Trust you to over-egg the context. No one is mentioning appraising those other assemblies. Though the religiosity should also be removed from the Tynwald day pomp and ceremony. Government should be completely secular. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, quilp said: Trust you to over-egg the context. No one is mentioning appraising those other assemblies. Though the religiosity should also be removed from the Tynwald day pomp and ceremony. Government should be completely secular. The way IOMG is shaping up, all it’s traditions will be ending, especially when it ends up cap in hand to the UK for a bail out. The Island will be an extension of Lancashire. No more dodgy Russian Oligarch money flowing through the island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Tynwald day is a Viking ceremony, what religion were the Vikings? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, 2112 said: The way IOMG is shaping up, all it’s traditions will be ending, especially... ...No more dodgy Russian Oligarch money flowing through the island. Yes I forgot laundering Russian Oligarch money has long been a nuanced tradition of this Island paradise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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