Prayers (Pray for the Island)

[hissingsid]

So an amendment has been passed allowing members uncomfortable with an 80 second prayer be allowed to sit out when it is on.   What a performance I bet they don’t sit out of St Johns Chapel at Tynwald they will be there dressed up like 4d rabbits smiling at the T.V. cameras when they emerge to walk to the hill.   A wasted day first we all knew the trams were stopping half way along the promenade then this, still there is nothing of importance to discuss really and they will still get their seventy grand a year regardless whether other people are scratching around.   Sarah Maltby obviously took advice fro daddy don’t upset any of your voters….and it seems to have gone well except six 🙄

[HeliX]

7 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

What a performance I bet they don’t sit out of St Johns Chapel at Tynwald they will be there dressed up like 4d rabbits smiling at the T.V. cameras when they emerge to walk to the hill.

Attendance isn't optional so obviously they'll be there. Just like they'd have continued to go to the prayers at the start of sittings if it wasn't made optional. Strange criticism.

[quilp]

7 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

So an amendment has been passed allowing members uncomfortable with an 80 second prayer 🙄

You keep trying to play this issue down as just an 80 second prelude. It isn't. It's a matter of principal.

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, quilp said:

You keep trying to play this issue down as just an 80 second prelude. It isn't. It's a matter of principal.

I don't mind it being called an 80 second prelude so long as it's consistently. It can't be an 80 second prelude not worth quibbling about one moment, and a very important part of the Island's identity and tradition the next.

[Kopek]

Is 80 secs of prayer enough to forgive mhks all their sins?

I would imagine your God would think they were shirking in their devotion.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Kopek

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Lots of Manx in their teens 20s/30s/40s still believe in traditional Manx values. I would say if you don’t like our way, you know what to do. I can not stand people complaining about our island and way of life.

I'm Manx.

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Well you do surprise me 

It's surprising to you that there are Manx people who aren't religious? Where have you been for the last few decades?

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Kopek said:

Clutching at straws a little 2112? Forcing religion on people at any event would be as bad as banning religion all together?

Live and let live.

But you could also argue that removing religious completely would be forcing atheism on people.  It's a difficult balancing act.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

But you could also argue that removing religious completely would be forcing atheism on people.  It's a difficult balancing act.

Depends what you're removing it from. From shared multi (and no) faith events? Removing Christian practices from those is an improvement in religious freedom, not a negative. There's absolutely nothing stopping people from attending specific faith events, and I hope that freedom continues forever, even if I simultaneously hope that attendance continues to diminish.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, offshoremanxman said:

It’s about time it goes though. There are very few practicing Christians these days it’s a very small sub set of society. A lot of people who signed the census to say they were Christian probably aren’t either other than by tradition (and in the absence of having anything else to put in the box). The prayers should go and the Bishop should also go. 

The Bishop more urgently than the prayers!

[HeliX]

6 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Not at all. I’m suprised you don’t see the whole picture . A new house of keys has just been elected a few months ago. There are people starving . We have a food bank, we have a kind lady who cooks for many every day so people can eat and pay their heating bills. We have a very long waiting list, people going around in pain, people half blind. People in poverty not able to work because they can’t get operations. Then you have this shower crying over an 80 second prayer that has been apart of tynwald for many many years. They should be totally ashamed of themselves. What is funny they see themselves as gods wasting all taxpayers money.

I do see all those things. But this came up because there was no Chaplain at present, so now is when it was dealt with. Because it was appropriate.

[Kopek]

28 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But you could also argue that removing religious completely would be forcing atheism on people.

That's why I didn't say that!

However, when I'm Dictator..............................

[Ham_N_Eggs]

1 minute ago, Manx17 said:

Not at all. I’m suprised you don’t see the whole picture . A new house of keys has just been elected a few months ago. Their our people starving . We have a food bank, we have a kind lady who cooks for many every day so people can eat and pay their heating bills. We have a very long waiting list, people going around in pain people , half blind. People in poverty not able to work because they can’t get operations. Then you have this shower crying over an 80 second prayer that has been apart of tynwald for many many years. They should be totally ashamed of themselves. What is funny they see themselves as gods wasting all taxpayers money.

Again I have to point out that they can deal with more than one issue at once. Also they have a committee looking into the issues around poverty on the Island. 

However, what disappointed me about today's debate was how ridiculous the arguments were against getting rid of prayers (I'm not a believer but let's not; and the most pathetic of all it's a tradition); and how long they took to debate something that should have been a simple matter. Yes we agree no we don't. But perhaps the most disappointing thing about all of this is that this issue is what caused dozens of constituents to write to their MHK's. Not poverty, not poor education standards, not mental health issue. Prayers.  Do the manx population really care about their fellow man?

 

[quilp]

11 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Not at all. I’m suprised you don’t see the whole picture . A new house of keys has just been elected a few months ago. There are people starving . We have a food bank, we have a kind lady who cooks for many every day so people can eat and pay their heating bills. We have a very long waiting list, people going around in pain, people half blind. People in poverty not able to work because they can’t get operations. Then you have this shower crying over an 80 second prayer that has been apart of tynwald for many many years. They should be totally ashamed of themselves. What is funny they see themselves as gods wasting all taxpayers money.

What a load of anal bollocks. Laughable, if it weren't so tragic that you would embroider all that agony into a debate about symbolism.

Anyway, apparently it's all sorted now, in a seemingly sensible and democratic manner. Those who don't wish to partake can laugh amongst themselves and join in with the ongoing serious stuff once the appetite for tradition for those who want it, is sated.

[HeliX]

Just now, Manx17 said:

The Chaplain left at the end of the last election. If it was that urgent then they could of done it then. This just looks like they wanted their Christmas parties out of the way. It is totally selfish when people are suffering. To make matters worse what they said today about putting wages up and that it will have to be slowly. They haven’t got a clue and don’t care.

It was time to appoint a new Chaplain.