Oh Mona Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 The IOM is a Crown dependency. The Queen, Lord of Man is the "Defender of the Faith" and Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The prayers should remain and those that do not want to pray should just take that short moment to listen to their own conscience before they vote or stand up and speak. That way they may think more about their actions and who and what they are representing. The people of the Isle of Man, not their own self-serving agendas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Oh Mona said: The IOM is a Crown dependency. The Queen, Lord of Man is the "Defender of the Faith" and Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The prayers should remain and those that do not want to pray should just take that short moment to listen to their own conscience before they vote or stand up and speak. That way they may think more about their actions and who and what they are representing. The people of the Isle of Man, not their own self-serving agendas. But the Queen is in no way representative of the people of the IoM. I wholeheartedly agree with you that MHK's should represent the people of the Isle of Man and carry out their wishes, that's what they have been democratically elected to do. The Queen on the other hand has never faced election in her own country, let alone here. She is not representative of the people here and has no political mandate to approve or disapprove our wishes. She is an anarchism that dilutes our democracy, and a costly one at than in the form of the Governor, who again has no democratic mandate on the island. You can't have it both ways, you can't insist that our elected representatives carry out the wishes of the people who elect them in one breath, and then insist they defer to a completely unelected and irrelevant entity in the next. You either believe in democracy or you don't, you can't just insist on it when it suits you to. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, Oh Mona said: The IOM is a Crown dependency. The Queen, Lord of Man is the "Defender of the Faith" and Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The prayers should remain and those that do not want to pray should just take that short moment to listen to their own conscience before they vote or stand up and speak. That way they may think more about their actions and who and what they are representing. The people of the Isle of Man, not their own self-serving agendas. The same is true of the Scottish, and Welsh Parliament neither of them start with prayers. The Northern Irish Parliament has silent prayers for two minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, NoTail said: If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Abrahamic_religions So they would both feel at home, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 47 minutes ago, NoTail said: If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? Yes. It's ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 48 minutes ago, NoTail said: If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? Well Leonard Singer, ex MHK Ramsey and MLC, and he is Jewish. He didn’t complain or say he was uncomfortable. I am all for freedom of choice and respecting views and beliefs but this is going over the top and totally out of hand. The island is on its arse, splurging it’s reserves, has too many social issues, and yet a few clowns are obsessing over a few prayers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, 2112 said: yet a few clowns are obsessing over a few prayers You're right, they should just get rid of them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, 2112 said: Well Leonard Singer, ex MHK Ramsey and MLC, and he is Jewish. He didn’t complain or say he was uncomfortable. I am all for freedom of choice and respecting views and beliefs but this is going over the top and totally out of hand. The island is on its arse, splurging it’s reserves, has too many social issues, and yet a few clowns are obsessing over a few prayers. Doesn't make it any less ridiculous just because Singer joined in. Again to reiterate my earlier point, Tynwald and the House of Keys can, and do, deal with more than one issue at a sitting. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, 2112 said: I am all for freedom of choice and respecting views and beliefs but this is going over the top and totally out of hand. The island is on its arse, splurging it’s reserves, has too many social issues, and yet a few clowns are obsessing over a few prayers. On the other hand is the requirement for everybody to say prayers each session a reflection that the organisation is out of date and out of touch. You pays your money and takes your choice. If any other work place required employees to say prayers all together prior to starting work and disciplined those who did not do I doubt they would get away with it. I am not religious so I would be happy to see the prayers and the religious aspects of our government go. To me our parliament should be inclusive and represent society. I don't think compulsory prayers does that. It also seems rather odd that parties are essentially forced to attend to pray and worship when religion is essentially about faith. As God said in HG2G "without faith I am nothing" It also seems against the idea and principle of religious freedom which both provides for those of any faith to practice it but those who are not religious not to practice it. I think that there should be a total separation of church and state. That is across the board. Why these days are schools still required to hold assemblies, covid permitting, that include collective worship of a wholly or mainly broadly Christian character. I am all for religious education. I would love to have learnt a lot more about different religions whilst at school and no a lot more than I do. I am just against forced compulsory worship for anybody 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 33 minutes ago, HeliX said: You're right, they should just get rid of them. The clowns or the prayers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Just now, finlo said: The clowns or the prayers? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsmeee Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, NoTail said: If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? ‘Odd religion?’ Wow. There’s your problem. If anyone of any religion (or none), other than Christian, is judged ‘odd’, we do not have a Parliament which represents its people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 4 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: But the Queen is in no way representative of the people of the IoM. I wholeheartedly agree with you that MHK's should represent the people of the Isle of Man and carry out their wishes, that's what they have been democratically elected to do. The Queen on the other hand has never faced election in her own country, let alone here. She is not representative of the people here and has no political mandate to approve or disapprove our wishes. She is an anarchism that dilutes our democracy, and a costly one at than in the form of the Governor, who again has no democratic mandate on the island. You can't have it both ways, you can't insist that our elected representatives carry out the wishes of the people who elect them in one breath, and then insist they defer to a completely unelected and irrelevant entity in the next. You either believe in democracy or you don't, you can't just insist on it when it suits you to. Her Majesty is lord of Man aka your landlord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Helmut Fromage Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 4 hours ago, NoTail said: If the MHK is Jewish, Muslim or other odd religion do they have to sit through these prayers? You quote the 3 main Abraham religions - essentially the same book of the Old Testament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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