quilp Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 One hopes that this tragedy proves a challenge to the die-hard faith of the OP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, thommo2010 said: I don't think I have ever seen God post on these forums but you never know he might answer you 🧏♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, thommo2010 said: I don't think I have ever seen God post on these forums but you never know he might answer you Edited February 7, 2022 by Passing Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 2/6/2022 at 2:58 PM, Chinahand said: What are the options: An evil god who deliberately allows the innocent to be hurt. A denial that such are innocent - they are tainted and so God is unable to intervene. Quite why God can't intervene is always the question - because he has to respect our free will? But that doesn't explain why he allows natural evils like a baby with fly maggots eating its eyes, or a nursing mother and child drowned by a tsunami. How are these sufferings due to free will? An impotent god who is unable to create a world where such evils occur. Or the simplest explanation - there is no intervening god and religion is better explained by human psychological reactions to feeling powerless in a universe driven by natural forces far beyond us. Or a 4th option - the universe was started off by a 'god' who has had no involvement in it ever since. I could just about (I don't) believe that one, that we are living in some computer simulation started off by an entity far more advanced than ourselves, but that would jut beg the question where did it come from? I could never accept the traditional deity who cares about us, listens to our thoughts, and is interested (when he chooses to be) in the minutiae of our lives, judging us after we die. That's simply an invented narrative made up in more primitive times to keep the peasants under control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, wrighty said: Or a 4th option - the universe was started off by a 'god' who has had no involvement in it ever since. I still can't get my head around why/how the Big Bang banged. I've thought this is maybe one way to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: I still can't get my head around why/how the Big Bang banged. I've thought this is maybe one way to explain. Possibly the only way to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I’m sure we’ll work out the answer between us in this thread. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 3 hours ago, The Phantom said: 3 hours ago, wrighty said: Or a 4th option - the universe was started off by a 'god' who has had no involvement in it ever since. I still can't get my head around why/how the Big Bang banged. I've thought this is maybe one way to explain. 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Possibly the only way to explain it. God did it isn't an explanation, it just moves the explanation one step backward. "I still can't get my head around why/how God appeared" It is called begging the question to simply give God the characteristics you are trying to understand. Why should God have existed for an infinite period of time, what characteristics did he have to create the universe? Also the idea that the Big Bang is the beginning of the universe has been challenged for a while. I can remember as a youngster hearing that the Pope, ever an expert on cosmology, delivered a homily at the start of a scientific conference warning scientists not to speculate about what happened before the big bang as that was the Realm of God. Listening to this guff was Stephen Hawking who happily ignored it. His work used complex space time to show that the Big Bang wasn't a singularity. More recently Nobel Prize winner Roger Penrose has taken the evidence in the Cosmic Background Radiation to develop mathematical models showing a cycling universe: https://aeon.co/videos/a-cyclical-forgetful-universe-roger-penrose-details-an-astonishing-origin-hypothesis An infinitely old God v an infinitely old universe. You don't need a deist god to start it off, it might have never had a beginning as it is infinitely old. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opusManx Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) The answer is 42. (acc. to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) Edited February 9, 2022 by opusManx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 22 hours ago, Chinahand said: God did it isn't an explanation, it just moves the explanation one step backward. "I still can't get my head around why/how God appeared" It is called begging the question to simply give God the characteristics you are trying to understand. Why should God have existed for an infinite period of time, what characteristics did he have to create the universe? Also the idea that the Big Bang is the beginning of the universe has been challenged for a while. I can remember as a youngster hearing that the Pope, ever an expert on cosmology, delivered a homily at the start of a scientific conference warning scientists not to speculate about what happened before the big bang as that was the Realm of God. Listening to this guff was Stephen Hawking who happily ignored it. His work used complex space time to show that the Big Bang wasn't a singularity. More recently Nobel Prize winner Roger Penrose has taken the evidence in the Cosmic Background Radiation to develop mathematical models showing a cycling universe: https://aeon.co/videos/a-cyclical-forgetful-universe-roger-penrose-details-an-astonishing-origin-hypothesis An infinitely old God v an infinitely old universe. You don't need a deist god to start it off, it might have never had a beginning as it is infinitely old. My money is still on an infinitely old God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 If there’s no God, then who listens to my prayers? I asked a Jehovah’s Witness about why God let the tigers die, because they isn’t interested in the world - that’s why. I’m really sick today, headache, sick, tired, generally not myself at all - where is God? In heaven being busy with heaven business - we all need to stop being so self obsessed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, 2bees said: If there’s no God, then who listens to my prayers? Depending on which mobile device you use it will be Alexa, Siri, Google or even Cortana. Not sure what Jehovah's Witnesses and tigers have to do with anything though. 2 hours ago, 2bees said: I’m really sick today, headache, sick, tired, generally not myself at all - where is God? In heaven being busy with heaven business - we all need to stop being so self obsessed. I am not the one praying to God and asking for forgiveness/favours/assistance or a miracle. How does that make me self-obsessed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 9:27 PM, The Voice of Reason said: My money is still on an infinitely old God. Why come to a conclusion? What characteristics does this infinitely old being have, other than being necessary to create a multiverse? Why is he necessary, what characteristics does a god have which a multiverse cannot have? If you've no better reason for holding these beliefs than a shrug and that's what you believe, do you think it is possible to acknowledge you aren't holding them for a good reason, and withholding ascent is a more reasonable position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 18 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Depending on which mobile device you use it will be Alexa, Siri, Google or even Cortana. Not sure what Jehovah's Witnesses and tigers have to do with anything though. I am not the one praying to God and asking for forgiveness/favours/assistance or a miracle. How does that make me self-obsessed? Do you actually think I was being serious? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.