Howard's Wood

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

There are actually a couple of places on the Isle where there are established and mature Oak Trees very close to the sea.  One is just north of Laxey, past the never-ending bend and they are literally 50 meters from the sea and about 50 meters up on the cliffs.  So, I'm not so sure about the claims that they are the 'wrong type of tree in the wrong place'. 

Probably too close to one another, but I'm assuming this is to allow for some sort of wastage/die-back that will thin out the woods as they grow. 

It depends which type of oak tree though.  Sessile oaks are more suitable for and native to the Isle of Man, but they may have used the type more common in England, I think the suppliers of the tree 'whips' were off-Island[1].  Even then there needs to be consideration of what mix of trees is most suitable for soil type, drainage etc, not just for the site as a whole, but particular bits of it.  And there should be an effort to source local strains of trees (because we know these survive) and have a good genetic mix as well, rather than a standard clone.  And of course planting should be done under the right conditions and at the right time of year.

Naturally none of this was considered with the only criteria that mattered being photo-ops[2].  Hence the planting in Spring rather than Autumn, which as Barber points out in the Manx Radio clip, is when planting should be done because the plant should be dormant.

The Woodland Trust has a 330 page Woodland Creation Guide (with useful links), I doubt anyone in Cabinet Office had read any of it - or if they had, they kept quiet so as to keep their job.

 

[1]  They may not even be from the UK as a lot of trees in the past have been sourced from commercial suppliers on the continent, bring in the danger of disease transmission.

[2]  It's amusing to note in the Manx Radio photo that a handful of more mature saplings were planted behind the Commemorative Twig presumably so as to make the photos look better.  As I pointed out in an earlier post the rest of the site looked more like a WWI Cemetery - and the survival rates seem to have been about the same

[SleepyJoe]

Does DEFA employ a forester?

[Roger Mexico]

9 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Does DEFA employ a forester?

There's a whole division (hence the F), with this guy in charge, but they even have people with Forester in their job titles.

[The Phantom]

10 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Does DEFA employ a forester?

They did about 15 years ago.  A guy I knew at the time did it at Uni and then was working at DEFA afterwards.  But I've not seen or heard from him in years. 

However, he would probably be deemed an expert now, and we know how that usually works out. 

I'm sure with all the plantation chopping they've been doing over the last couple of years, they must have at least someone that know what they're doing.  But then again, look at the complete absence of maintenance in Axnfell/Glen Roy/Laxey Valley that was partially responsible for the flooding.  

[Numbnuts]

16 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

They did about 15 years ago.  A guy I knew at the time did it at Uni and then was working at DEFA afterwards.  But I've not seen or heard from him in years. 

However, he would probably be deemed an expert now, and we know how that usually works out. 

I'm sure with all the plantation chopping they've been doing over the last couple of years, they must have at least someone that know what they're doing.  But then again, look at the complete absence of maintenance in Axnfell/Glen Roy/Laxey Valley that was partially responsible for the flooding.  

Was chatting to a guy the other night who allegedly a forester with DEFA. He said theres only a few of them now as DEFRA prefer to use sub contract labour and that he was getting shunted about doing menial stuff. Wasnt a happy bunny , talking of which he said he was 'given ' the job up at Quayles folly to sort out the mounds and other issues. Apparently the said rabbits had eaten most of the young trees. Not been there so others on here could confirm or not .

[Omobono]

they should have been planted  in a protective tube's , and kept well watered , the soil conditions there are very heavy  and the young trees require additional  care until they get established , perhaps as part of the sponsership by Barclays bank   staff should have been permitted to attend the wood  on a regular basis , to keep the trees alive , and prevent  the grass from chocking them 

whats the betting there is no source of water on the site  even on a temporary basis , which is essential when trying to establish young broadleaf trees , 

there are some rabbits on the site  but most of the damage has been caused by neglect ,lack of moisture ,and protection from the southwest winds ,, 

like lots of things young trees require tender loving care ,  sadly not what Isle of Man Government  is famous for 

[english zloty]

2 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Was chatting to a guy the other night who allegedly a forester with DEFA. He said theres only a few of them now as DEFRA prefer to use sub contract labour and that he was getting shunted about doing menial stuff. Wasnt a happy bunny , talking of which he said he was 'given ' the job up at Quayles folly to sort out the mounds and other issues. Apparently the said rabbits had eaten most of the young trees. Not been there so others on here could confirm or not .

I got the impression DEFA wanted to put it elsewhere but folk in the Cabinet Office climate change knew better and wanted a quick win for Howard. When DEFA distanced themselves CABO created a tree planting officer

[Non-Believer]

5 hours ago, Omobono said:

like lots of things young trees require tender loving care, sadly not what Isle of Man Government is famous for 

They clearly weren't High Net Worth Trees...

[hissingsid]

The same up in Onchan at the Millennium wood  the trees were planted too closely together and are choked with weeds it is a disgrace.

[Manx Bean]

12 hours ago, english zloty said:

I got the impression DEFA wanted to put it elsewhere but folk in the Cabinet Office climate change knew better and wanted a quick win for Howard. When DEFA distanced themselves CABO created a tree planting officer

Absolutely spot on. The IOM Government uses the quick win approach on a regular basis, and it rarely ends well. When you add political ego into the equation, you know its going to result in a longer-term failure of cluster-fuck proportions.

[Hoops]

A couple of things.

Yeah, DEFA employ tree officers, in general they are pretty helpful. I would say that the criteria needed to fell trees has loosened quite a lot in recent years.

We have a coastal stunted oak woodland - a wonderful thing. Alas it is on private land, I haven't seen it but a friend worked on the garden.

I generally prefer to plant bare-root trees early spring rather then autumn, because I don't like the inactive roots sitting in the wet over winter. As long as the plant isn't in leaf, it's all good. I believe these particular plants were purchased way early and kept in their bunches, merely heeled in until when they were ready for them, which is far from ideal.

Did they really not put rabbit guards around the young trees? Wow. And weed growth around the base of young trees seriously affects their growth rate,  exacerbating moisture problems. I've worked on large sites where watering whips etc has been an issue, good planting of the right plant in the right conditions, a heavy initial watering, mulching and weed control have ensured good survival rates without further watering.

Planting distances - you often allow for later thinning, and can use a nurse crop to protect desired specimens, but using a nurse crop of oak around oak would be an IOM solution for an IOM problem.Maybe they were early microforest trendsetters?! 

[Non-Believer]

This information is posted on FB and is the result of an FOI request into annual expenditure on the Sulby Claddaghs...

 

 

[jackwhite]

12 hours ago, hissingsid said:

The same up in Onchan at the Millennium wood  the trees were planted too closely together and are choked with weeds it is a disgrace.

Was that you on The Mannin Line yesterday? 

 

10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

This information is posted on FB and is the result of an FOI request into annual expenditure on the Sulby Claddaghs...

 

 

Effin hell these are not pretty figures.

Claire Barber was alluding to something about that on The Mannin Line on Monday. They're assessing how they run this site and if they should be really, as they are, in essence, competing with local commercial campsites. 

[Non-Believer]

6 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Was that you on The Mannin Line yesterday? 

 

Effin hell these are not pretty figures.

Claire Barber was alluding to something about that on The Mannin Line on Monday. They're assessing how they run this site and if they should be really, as they are, in essence, competing with local commercial campsites. 

Fairly typical IoMG figures.

£62.5k spent last year

£7.5k revenue.

Now who in G4S is well in with Govt?

[jackwhite]

Just now, Non-Believer said:

Fairly typical IoMG figures.

£62.5k spent last year

£7.5k revenue.

Now who in G4S is well in with Govt?

Honestly don't know. 

I'm pretty 'green' when it comes to the ins and outs of who's involved in Government and their histories. It's something I'm taking more of an interest in at the minute. Would love to think we could get more people involved and actually use votes for something useful but appreciate that's a worldwide struggle.