Isle of Man Budget 2022-23

[Derek Flint]

4 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

That goes for all 24 of them. The only achievements will be the spending of astronomical sums of money that we don't have and unlocking their pension entitlements. 

In fairness to Stu, I think he is sufficient of a disruptor to perhaps at least have some things said that would otherwise be left unsaid. The house needs more individual thinkers, working orthogonal to the orthodoxy to stimulate the debate.

I also think that as a parochial MHK he will help his constituents where he can to the best level he is able. 

But overall, I agree. This administration is rapidly shaping up as I predicted - precisely the same as all the rest. The very fact they are now budgeting for a deficit is a massive red flag. Notwithstanding that I thought they were legally obliged to work to a balanced budget, surely you simply spend within your means to do so? 

Instead, more capital spend, a disproportionate climate change budget an increase in personal allowances and no NI increase. It doesn’t look like sensible governance to me.

[0bserver]

14 minutes ago, Banker said:

Daphne is happy with her £42m but single parent says lack of help is a death sentence, a bit dramatic but she has valid points 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/lack-of-support-for-single-parents-in-the-budget-is-a-death-sentence/

This single parent misunderstands. She will need to spend less on heating due to the fact she lives in a UNESCO biosphere. 

The warm fuzzy feeling she gets should keep her warm 12 months of the year with no need for heating. 

[0bserver]

17 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You are correct I was out. I was a zero out. However we were both wrong (you were nearer though)

Its 65MW

The key facts though are

• that its big enough for today's demand
• Its getting on a bit and won't last for ever (maybe OK for another 20 years)
• If demand goes up due to EVs, Heating by elec instead of oil and gas. Its too small

We just need a tax on EVs to pay for the charging infrastructure and additional generating capacity. If you can afford a £30k car then what's a couple of thousand more? 

The user pays principle.

[Happier diner]

17 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

In fairness to Stu, I think he is sufficient of a disruptor to perhaps at least have some things said that would otherwise be left unsaid. The house needs more individual thinkers, working orthogonal to the orthodoxy to stimulate the debate.

I also think that as a parochial MHK he will help his constituents where he can to the best level he is able. 

But overall, I agree. This administration is rapidly shaping up as I predicted - precisely the same as all the rest. The very fact they are now budgeting for a deficit is a massive red flag. Notwithstanding that I thought they were legally obliged to work to a balanced budget, surely you simply spend within your means to do so? 

Instead, more capital spend, a disproportionate climate change budget an increase in personal allowances and no NI increase. It doesn’t look like sensible governance to me.

How can you be fair to anyone who is so foolish they say that a 2C temperature rise for the Island would be a good thing. Is that not something that a total ignoramus would say?

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, HeliX said:

Yes I suppose if you don't bother to read the results we can't know.

If you do read the results it's pretty clear.

• David Fowler - 163
• Keiran Hannifan - 553
• Alison Lynch - 792
• Stuart Peters - 965
• Jane Poole-Wilson - 1,788

Still can’t know.
 

JPW could have been the beneficiary from all the pin stickers for whom one of the other candidates  was their first choice.

Anyway Middle has two MHK’s and voted JPW and Stu in whether by first or second choice.

This very much suggests to me both have a mandate.

 

[2112]

20 hours ago, 0bserver said:

You don't have to be a world leader or scientist to be able to see the next unaccountable fuck up approaching from Isle of Man Government. 

There needs to be a plan set out in black and white as to where this money is expected to go and what the expected benefits of spending it will be. Until then not a single penny should be spent on it. 

We have Daffy, a world expert ………….. don’t know what of? We have world class civil servants …………….. busy doing nothing. We have world class consultants and developers at our disposal waiting to give advice …………. then we taxpayers pick up the bill, but sometimes the advice, the planning is costing as much as the work involved, and besides with their vested interests, are they really going to care, or look to get the best value for money? I don’t believe Daffy cares one bit, as long as she achieves her aims and objectives at all costs. 

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, 0bserver said:

You didn't ask for evidence to support 'climate change is a positive thing'. 

Lets consider what I was responding too:

The claim was the the latest scientific studies showed that extinction rebellion and the Green Party are referencing are wrong.  The studies cited still show climate change being driven by human activities but note that the rate is slowing due to the actions taken between the studies.  There are also some points that economic growth has not been as rapid as planned.

Essentially the study cited confirms that climate change is affected by man and that the much maligned green initiatives do work and can slow the change. 

The only real dispute is the time period that we are discussing.  The Green Party and Extinction Rebellion are aiming to ensure that we do not get complacent and think that we have already done enough.

If I was a conspiracy theorist, based purely on SP's posts, I would suggest that he is getting a back hander from the Oil and Gas industry to use his position to disrupt the roll out of green solutions. That, of course, is nonsense because no-one in those industries has probably heard of Stu, and even if they have, he would not be considered influential enough to be worth the money.  It's much more likely that he has swallowed propaganda from elsewhere and is simply regurgitating it here.

As has already been pointed out his grasp on facts appears to be extremely limited if he believes that the internal combustion engine drove the industrial revolution.  The private car was not a realistic proposition for most people until the late 1950's early 1960's.  Hell it wasn't until 1968 that the UK stopped using steam locomotives after the introduction of diesel locomotives in the 1960's.

I am afraid that I simply do not rate Stu as an MHK and I did not vote for him.  As a private individual and Radio Presenter I am fairly indifferent towards him and accept that as a radio presenter he sometimes played the role of "shock jock".  As a politician he simply comes across as a mini Donald Trump. 

 

[0bserver]

15 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

The Green Party and Extinction Rebellion are aiming to ensure that we do not get complacent and think that we have already done enough.

 

Both of those groups returned exactly zero MHKs last September. They have no democratic mandate from the GMP. 

[Josem]

12 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Have there been any figures quoted to claim ongoing burgeoning economic growth? It's ten years now since Eddie Teare's remarkable contributions to fiscal and economic science. Has Ashford picked up the ball and run any further with it?

The most recent publicly-available data for Manx GDP is for immediately prior to the start of the pandemic. The IOM Government recorded 1.9% GDP growth for the financial year ending March 2020.

Apart from the recession years of 2015-16 and 2012-13, that was the slowest GDP growth of the last decade, which is more a reflection of the very high levels of GDP growth through the 2010s (apart from 15/16 and 12/13) than anything else. Manx GDP grew by an average of 4.7% from the 2009-10 financial year through to the 2019-20 financial year (inclusive).

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, 0bserver said:

Both of those groups returned exactly zero MHKs last September. They have no democratic mandate from the GMP. 

Extinction Rebellion is a protest/pressure group and as far as I am aware they have never had a candidate stand for election under their banner.

The Green Party is often viewed as a one policy party or too socialist for many people to get behind but clearly standing with Green Policies does win votes as a number of the current MHK's back those policies.  Even Stu voted the budget through even though he has since backtracked on the green funding.

I wonder how many other elements he will backtrack on once they become unpopular.  

[Two-lane]

18 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

his grasp on facts appears to be extremely limited if he believes that the internal combustion engine drove the industrial revolution

His words were: "Combustion, engines and mechanisation fueled the Industrial Revolution". There is a comma which is significant.

[hissingsid]

Daphne was on MR this morning saying how delighted she was to get the dosh she says things must be done to show things are being done, my words not hers and we must have eco houses and electric cars.    Now 42 million is a lot of money but how many eco houses could you build for that ? About 130 ish so that would be nice for 130 families but what about the rest of us ?   She was breathless with enthusiasm and I fear the worst.   Money accrued by the Government from the Tax payer should be used to benefit all the population because all the population have paid into the pot.

[0bserver]

13 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Daphne was on MR this morning saying how delighted she was to get the dosh she says things must be done to show things are being done, my words not hers and we must have eco houses and electric cars.    Now 42 million is a lot of money but how many eco houses could you build for that ? About 130 ish so that would be nice for 130 families but what about the rest of us ?   She was breathless with enthusiasm and I fear the worst.   Money accrued by the Government from the Tax payer should be used to benefit all the population because all the population have paid into the pot.

It's truly frightening. It's like one of those episodes of Seconds from Disaster where they rush unknowingly into oblivion, even though all the signs were there if you look.  

If we thought the MEA unapproved/illegal loans were bad then we haven't seen anything yet. The £400,000,000 green bond is going to saddle the Island with crippling debt for the next 50+ years and we have no realistic way of paying it off. Especially when you throw the Public Sector Pension Black Hole into the mix (remember that? £4bn and growing rapidly). 

We're on an express route to financial ruin and being an economic basket case, but as long as Daphne, Devon, manxman1980, and others get a nice feeling from it then it's worth every penny! 

Edited February 17, 2022 by 0bserver

[asitis]

11 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

things must be done to show things are being done

and this is precisely the danger, she will find ever more ingenious ways of blowing 42 million, you wait and see.

I support doing what we can, but wasting money we don't have on feeling green would not be one of them.

[Lost Login]

7 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Now 42 million is a lot of money but how many eco houses could you build for that ? About 130 ish so that would be nice for 130 families but what about the rest of us ?   She was breathless with enthusiasm and I fear the worst.   Money accrued by the Government from the Tax payer should be used to benefit all the population because all the population have paid into the pot.

So you are presuming that having built these house they would just give them away rather than sell or rent out.

What makes far more sense is that they change building regs to make houses 7 offices far more energy efficient and then provide grants towards this or towards making existing property far more energy efficient. Making property far more energy efficient to reduce heating costs seems a no brainer to whatever your views on climate change.