Russia

[quilp]

3 minutes ago, opusManx said:

Turkey has said it is yet to make a decision on closing its straits between the Mediterannean and the Black Sea to the Russian navy– despite an earlier claim by the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy.

It is the first official clarification since Zelenskiy said on Saturday that Turkey had agreed to close the waterways to warships – which would have been a big defensive boon for Ukraine.

According to Reuters, a Turkish official said it “has not made a decision to close the straits to Russian ships”.

If it did happen, a closure would break a convention for Black Sea states that warships are allowed to return to port during wartime. (The Guardian, 0246H GMT, Harry Taylor)

Yet the BBC still running it as Zelenskiy thanking the caliph-in-waiting for doing so on its rolling news. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by quilp

[opusManx]

9 minutes ago, quilp said:

Yet the BBC still running it as Zelenskiy thanking the caliph-in-waiting for doing so on its rolling news. 

Video/radio seems to always suffer a time delay relative to print media. I presume its due to "more chefs in the kitchen"/technical issues. I read once that most (~80%) audiovisual journalism is regurgitated print journalism (as opposed to orginal investigative reporting). So you would expect it to lag.

Incompetence notwithstanding! 😆

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, quilp said:

Will NATO enforce a no-fly zone in Ukraine air-space? That's where real shit could kick off. 

The interesting thing will be if a Russian military aircraft flies outside the territory of Ukraine, intentionally or otherwise. The US have many aircraft patrolling the Black Sea (with a Grumann drone watching their every move) and on the Polish & Romanian borders and there's more on the way.

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, opusManx said:

Doubtful...Nato vs Russian jets risks drawing Nato into larger conflict...nuclear exchange risk unacceptable. Nato Sec-General Stoltenberg said this on PBS Newshour interview yesterday. "We wish to avoid being drawn into a conflict worse than what we already have" (paraphrased)

Unfortunately Putin might have other ideas re the nuclear issue.

[code99]

2 hours ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

 

Nothing philosophical about what I am saying.  I am only talking about the hypocrisy.

I can see why you think western countries should have done more if you truly think that Russia has designs on conquering all of Europe. But I don't know why you have that idea.  This conflict is not about conquering Europe and extending influence. What provocations are you referring to?

I don't know why you think Putin is a maniac.

I don't think any of this would have happened if Minsk II went ahead and if the Ukraine remained neutral.

This propaganda from the American government and western media where this conflict is seen only through the lens of the self determination of the Ukrainian people is just double standards.

Yes, one does get a 'different' i.e. Russian perspective from RT or Fox News or Trump (on Crimea, Georgia, Chechnya, Baltics, etc). But their views are cr*p, IMHO.

[Chinahand]

Deep Fake?

 

[opusManx]

14 minutes ago, code99 said:

.

Edited February 26, 2022 by opusManx

[code99]

5 minutes ago, opusManx said:

There are a variety of perspectives in Western media as well, often within the same publication or platform. Not necessarily all from propagandists or right-wing sources.

I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know.

[opusManx]

9 minutes ago, code99 said:

I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know.

De nada. Never too late to learn and acknowledge La_Dolce_Vita's point not necessarily based on a "Russian perspective". Kudos for your humility and open-mindedness.

Edited February 26, 2022 by opusManx

[La_Dolce_Vita]

On 2/25/2022 at 9:32 AM, manxman1980 said:

NATO is an alliance of sovereign countries.  Belarus is a puppet state to Russia which is not comparable to the relationship between the USA and other NATO members.

Non NATO countries such as Afghanistan have been used for decades by Russia and the USA to fight proxy wars.  That isn't right but it was not NATO who posed the threat. 

Arguably the continued expansion of NATO could be seen as a breach of previous agreements, however, Russia have also been increasing their sphere of influence including taking control of regions such as the Crimea, murdering people in NATO countries and various cyber attacks.  That is also ignoring the alleged interference in western democratic elections.

Have you notice that the report into Russian interference in the Brexit referendum and elections has been buried?

I wasn't referring to NATO states being puppets and I wasn't making a comparison of Belarus and Russia compared with the NATO alliance. I was talking about nations in the Americas that the US ensured were friendly and aligned with American military and political interests.

We don't really need to look at any agreements about expanding NATO. Expansion is only ever going to be provocative to Russia.

Controlling the Crimea is not so much an expansion of Russia's sphere of influence but rather ensuring that it can still control the sea ports.

I'm not defending Russia. But this conflict has been provoked by the United States and I don't think Russia's actions are peculiar. 

If you have a nation state on your border wanting to join an alliance against you then it's a question of whether you have the power to put a stop to it and Russia can. Diplomacy was tried but the Americans have dragged their feet on Minsk II by doing nothing to sort out this Ukrainian problem.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

Yes, one does get a 'different' i.e. Russian perspective from RT or Fox News or Trump (on Crimea, Georgia, Chechnya, Baltics, etc). But their views are cr*p, IMHO.

I am not aware of them (i.e. American conservative and Trump views). Is it isolationism?

Edited February 26, 2022 by La_Dolce_Vita

[manxman1980]

57 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

 

Controlling the Crimea is not so much an expansion of Russia's sphere of influence but rather ensuring that it can still control the sea ports.

 

The UK didn't seem to feel the same way about the Falkland Islands did it?  

I know its an over simplification but Russia just took territory from another sovereign nation and the Western world barely batted an eyelid.  It showed to Putin that invading the Ukraine was not going to bring any real ramifications for Russia.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

The UK didn't seem to feel the same way about the Falkland Islands did it? 

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that Argentinian military occupation is a similar situation to the Crimea occupation?

[manxman1980]

4 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that Argentinian military occupation is a similar situation to the Crimea occupation?

Occupation...

Wonder why they seem similar?

[Mr. Sausages]

Abramovich has given up control of Chelsea. Not ownership though. Obviously trying to distance himself from his assets.