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19 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

Ukraine has been wanting closer ties to Europe and NATO. I have friends in both Russia and Ukraine by the way - they all agree with this assessment, it is almost unbelievable to them that this Kissenger style realpolitik / balance-of-power / great game view that La Dolce Vita has is being put forth and digested by intelligent people in the West. Sorry to say it, but Putin is a bad man, with no shades of grey, he despises us and everything decent we stand for and we are not to blame for doing everything we can to protect ourselves and others from him. 

But just because the Ukraine wants to join NATO doesn't mean it should be allowed to. If conflict and confrontation is made less likely by maintaining the status quo then that's probably the best thing for the world.

I never said he wasnt a bad man but my understanding of all of this is not 'bad man just does bad things'. I don't think he is completely irrational. 

The whole situation has been arrived at by irrationality with the United States being alarmist and panicky because it is being threatened by what Russian and Chinese partnership can bring in the world and in Europe. America has done a lot of scaremongering and done nothing to help defuse this situation over the past decade or so and very recently. 

Russia's resolve is being tested and seeing as how Minsk II has not been moved along by the Ukraine and America then it narrows the options do what is possible.  Russia has the military power to try to advance its interests and that has been chosen now that diplomacy looks to have failed.  I don't think war is right but I think I can understand why things are as they are, especially by just looked at how the United States has done the same in the past.

If a nation state on your doorstep joins an alliance aimed against you and which makes a defence of your country more difficult (to whatever degree) in the future then it is just common sense to recognise that sweeping that player off the board is an option, if you have the ability to do so, . Is that wrong? Well that's a separate matter but it is how the world works.

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14 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I think I caught Liz Truss in the radio earlier saying the government would also arm them?

Putin’s not happy I fear. News of a foreign legion advancing isn’t going to make him feel any better. This could get even nastier. 

Unlikely UK will arm them directly. But if they happen to be stood next to a truck of British weapons being unloaded...

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