Russia

[code99]

Russia invaded an independent sovereign country! That is the only fact that matters! There cannot be any other 'alternative facts' about what this invasion is. If there were, then the Russian authorities should be more than happy to allow Russian journalists from independent media organisations to report the situation. Instead, Putin shut down every outlet of the free press in Russia, and now he is detaining Russian old-aged pensioners for speaking out against this barbaric invasion.  

Putin's oft-stated pretext for his criminal war is to 'liberate' Ukraine from Nazis. Strangely, he seems to be very comfortable with his own home-grown neo-Nazis and Russian skin-heads whose favorite pastime is to bash gay people. If in doubt, google Stephen Fry's documentary, or just watch American podcasts where white supremacists have been extolling Putin as a 'savior' of the white race. I hope the irony is not lost on people that Zelensky is Jewish and many of his relatives were murdered in Holocaust. If Zelensky is anything, then he is the archetypical non-Nazi. Then again, perhaps he is drafting a new version of Mein Kampf as I write this post.

If there had been cases of 'genocide' in the separatists' region of Donbas, as Putin keeps banging on about, Russia should have complained to the ICJ many moons ago. What is Putin waiting for? If they had evidence then surely Putin's people would have presented that evidence to the Court so that it could decide, just like they did with the trial of Slobodan Milosevic, et al. But perhaps Putin's claims about 'genocide' are really only a flimsy way of avoiding the fact that separatists in Donbas shot down MH17? In that case every shred of evidence still points in their direction.

[quilp]

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

 ‘We have video footage of a tank/APC being driven over a civilian vehicle in Ukraine, it’s not known whether the vehicle is Russian or Ukrainian, we are unsure if it was deliberate, but it’s an absolute miracle they escaped with their life’

Not much of a headline though is it?  I know what you are saying but that clip went viral long before the "mainstream media" picked it up and it already had the description of being a Russian tank.  

I don't think it was "face news" so much as reporting about a video clip that had already been widely shared.  It would be hard to fact check it and even you cannot say for certain what happened.

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

How about the Russian POWs? Every single video I’ve seen sounds like they’re reading from the same script, they were told it was a military exercise, they thought they’d be welcomed by Ukraine and didn’t know they were going to war, they didn’t want a war, you’d think if that was the case you’d think they would be pleased they were caught but they look absolutely defeated/beaten.

They are probably being asked the same or similar questions which is provoking similar responses.  As for the fact they looked defeated/beaten, well, wouldn't you if you had just been in a war and captured by the enemy?  Especially if you had expected to be greeted like a liberation force and cheered and welcomed by the locals?

 

I see a lot of videos and I am sceptical about them especially when they are very short and provide no context.  A good example is the number of tanks/APC's being "stolen" by Ukrainian farmers.  That looks more like they have been abandoned/immobilised beforehand because you don't see Russian soldiers fighting to take them back.  Nor do you see how they are "stolen".

So in my mind it is not "fake news" because they are just snippets of information getting out but the context is missing.

"Fake news" is realistically propaganda such as that being spread by the Kremlin where they are denying that the country is at war or has invaded the Ukraine.

[De nada]

UK laundry...

[TheTeapot]

3 hours ago, quilp said:

Zelenskyy and his team are very good at social media.

[quilp]

A bit of perspective or fake news..?

https://www.rt.com/russia/551211-dpr-militant-ukraine-interview/

There are many Russians doing the same thing- leaving Ukraine for Russia or Belarus. Anyone not fervently pro-Ukraine is getting a hard time of it. 

[Mr. Sausages]

Is RT allowed to call it a war?

[Annoymouse]

7 hours ago, code99 said:

Russia invaded an independent sovereign country! That is the only fact that matters! There cannot be any other 'alternative facts' about what this invasion is.

I’m certainly not trying to justify the invasion (I still don’t even understand how Putin ever thinks he will) only that the news is very bias, yes understandably so given Russia is the aggressor but none the less it’s still biased.

 

 

[code99]

26 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

I’m certainly not trying to justify the invasion (I still don’t even understand how Putin ever thinks he will) only that the news is very bias, yes understandably so given Russia is the aggressor but none the less it’s still biased.

Don't worry, Nadine Dorries agrees with you: "Russian TV broadcasts (in the UK) a disinformation campaign", she says; the RT has gone off-air, so no more bias!

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

Don't worry, Nadine Dorries agrees with you: "Russian TV broadcasts (in the UK) a disinformation campaign", she says; the RT has gone off-air, so no more bias!

RT should have been left on air to continue to embarrass themselves.  Firstly not allowed to call it a war, then Russians were threatened with prison for upto 15 years if they dare to speak out or protest against the ‘special operation’.

 

[manxman1980]

12 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

I still don’t even understand how Putin ever thinks he will

Putler doesn't ever intend to justify this war to anyone outside Russia.  Putler is only bothered about appearing strong to the Russian people and creating a legacy for himself.

As far as the rest of the world goes he couldn't give a damn.  Putler simply intends to threaten NATO/EU/UN with a nuclear war if they try and interfere in his expansion plans.  

In trying to help democratise Russia through trade and diplomacy the western nations have only strengthened Putler's hand.  Russia has gained a significant amount of soft power and influence in the west (look at how much Johnson's Government are struggling to impose any sanctions) whilst also retaining a major nuclear threat.

China have followed a very similar model but are less aggressive towards the west at present.

[manxman1980]

40 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

It’s an empty threat though isn’t? I can now see a no fly zone and NATO troops actually on the ground and a lot Cuban missile crisis style arse-twitching going on around nuclear arsenals - but it’s mutually assured destruction situation if anyone actually presses any buttons. The US has now flown about £350M of arms and equipment in to secret airbases in the last week. They’re doing a lot behind the scenes to supply the Ukrainians. 

Maybe the intercontinental type strikes are an empty threat but would you really put it past Putler to deploy "tactical" nuclear weapons in Ukraine?  

An interesting take on this whole situation is to set aside the separatist regions and the "nazi regime" in Ukraine and consider the following;

1. Russia pays a huge tariff to Ukraine for the gas/gas pipelines that run through the country to supply western Europe.

2. Gigantic deposits of natural gas were discovered in Crimea in 2012.  A few years later Russia occupies the territory.

3. Around the same time shale gas was discovered near Kharkiv and the towards the west of Ukraine.

I wonder what this war is really all about?

Now consider that Russia appears to have targeted nuclear power stations and I think the real threat is a nuclear "accident" which would turn people against the building of new nuclear power stations and force the west to rely on natural gas once again and specifically that supplied from Russia and the areas that Russia will exploit in Ukraine (assuming it goes to plan).

 

[Ghost Ship]

1 hour ago, offshoremanxman said:

It’s an empty threat though isn’t? I can now see a no fly zone and NATO troops actually on the ground and a lot Cuban missile crisis style arse-twitching going on around nuclear arsenals - but it’s mutually assured destruction situation if anyone actually presses any buttons. ...

I'm not so sure about that - I think it might be more like this... 

58 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Maybe the intercontinental type strikes are an empty threat but would you really put it past Putler to deploy "tactical" nuclear weapons in Ukraine?  

...

I was listening to the PM programme on Radio 4 last week and they had Mark Urban on.  He was saying that amongst his defence contacts it was generally believed that for the last decade or so that Russian military strategists had rehearsed various scenarios in the event of some kind of conflict with NATO in europe (for whatever reason) and that what might be the favoured option would be the use of a tactical weapon (in somewhere like Poland).  The Russian belief being that NATO would not risk nuclear conflict and that Putin could settle any conflict on terms favourable to him.

[About 32 mins in:  PM - 02/03/2022 - BBC Sounds]

I'd have to say that if they did do that, I'm not convinced the US would retaliate and I don't think Boris would either.  I assume France is the only other european state with nuclear weapons and I don't think Macron would retaliate.

Russia might well push up to the brink - but not beyond - in the belief that NATO etc won't risk going over the edge.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Ghost Ship

[TheTeapot]

This is great

 

[TheTeapot]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

Post the picture do.