Russia

[monasqueen]

It is interesting to see that one of the top Russian warships, that was told to "F Off" a while back, has now sunk/been sunk, and that Ukraine has issued a new postage stamp with the following image.

[Mr. Sausages]

It wasn’t sunk by Ukraine. There was an unexplained fire that caused ammunition to explode. It only sank because of bad weather. And Ukraine must be punished for it.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Mr. Sausages

[Mr. Sausages]

Russian state tv commentators getting confused over what they’re allowed to say is happening. But also talking of a single bomb on Kyiv to end it, and war against nato and the USA. Putin will have authorised this. 

 

[monasqueen]

6 hours ago, Mr. Sausages said:

It wasn’t sunk by Ukraine. There was an unexplained fire that caused ammunition to explode. It only sank because of bad weather. And Ukraine must be punished for it.

If this was accidental damage, someone in the crew was remarkably careless and should be "spoken to".

If this was "self inflicted" damage, why has Russia "retaliated" by firing missiles at a munitions factory just outside Kyiv?

Of course, the ship might not have sunk if there had not been a storm.

Any port will do in a storm (and judging by what I've been reading about Russians, they had probably drunk lots of it, or the local equivalent.)

[quilp]

15 minutes of this conflict, and the way it's being reported, from an expert. For any military anoraks interested.

 

The video editing part is revealing. 

[Bandits]

Even the oligarchs are starting to die mysteriously now.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Ex-Gazprombank-Executive-Kills-His-Family-Before-Shooting-Himself.html

[P.K.]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:51 PM, quilp said:

15 minutes of this conflict, and the way it's being reported, from an expert. For any military anoraks interested.

The video editing part is revealing. 

l don't think he mentioned how it takes absolutely massive cojones for infantry to attack an armoured column.

They can do this because in an urban environment it's difficult for the column to get off the road where the APC's can then deploy their dismounts to deal with the infantry attack.

Not so in the Donbas region which is ideal AFV country. Sure the Ukrainians have dug in but how effective will that be? In a previous life I watched an artillery regiment (18 guns) at Larkhill Ranges fire a barrage of mixed HE and WP, some 10 rounds per gun.

Frankly it was impossible to imagine anyone surviving under that lot. Dug in or not...

[quilp]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

l don't think he mentioned how it takes absolutely massive cojones for infantry to attack an armoured column.

They can do this because in an urban environment it's difficult for the column to get off the road where the APC's can then deploy their dismounts to deal with the infantry attack.

Not so in the Donbas region which is ideal AFV country. Sure the Ukrainians have dug in but how effective will that be? In a previous life I watched an artillery regiment (18 guns) at Larkhill Ranges fire a barrage of mixed HE and WP, some 10 rounds per gun.

Frankly it was impossible to imagine anyone surviving under that lot. Dug in or not...

He did comment on the cojones displayed in the close-quarter attack from the side of the road in one of those videos where the leading T-72 suffers a strike from likely a Panzerfaust 3 and brews-up but the attackers are immediately killed by an explosive round fired in response from a following tank and the amount of small arms that was also poured into the area surrounding that dug-out made survival impossible; a brave but illogical waste of life, as he comments.

As you will most certainly be aware, historically there were numerous occasions during WW1 and 2 where a prolonged barrage of heavy artillery over several hours from thousands of pieces intended to kill or soften-up the enemy didn't have the desired effect because the targets were adequately dug-in. The Ukrainians have had time to prepare.

Donbass is potentially a mini Kursk. Can't find any reliable figures on numbers of Ukranian armour and impossible to glean an accurate number of serviceable Russian units, which have likely been kept back with most of its better tanks and experienced personnel readying for the big push. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by quilp

[P.K.]

14 minutes ago, quilp said:

As you will most certainly be aware, historically there were numerous occasions during WW1 and 2 where a prolonged barrage of heavy artillery over several hours from thousands of pieces intended to kill or soften-up the enemy didn't have the desired effect because the targets were adequately dug-in. The Ukrainians have had time to prepare.

I take your point but things have moved on a lot since then.

You can be sure that with agents on the ground, advanced sigint and drones the Russians will know what they are up against and where it is. Now the gooners claim they can put a shell in a dustbin at 10 miles but you can also be sure that any tough nuts to crack will get the attention of Russian air power with bunker busting bombs.

The Ukrainians have put up a fantastic resistance so far by using the terrain to their advantage but the Donbas could turn into a war of attrition that the Ukrainians simply cannot win. Therefore imho they must play shoot 'n scoot which will mean giving ground. But if they cause the Russians serious casualties they'll be happy with that if it means Putin will think twice before trying it on again. 

I guess we'll find out.

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

I take your point but things have moved on a lot since then.

You can be sure that with agents on the ground, advanced sigint and drones the Russians will know what they are up against and where it is. Now the gooners claim they can put a shell in a dustbin at 10 miles but you can also be sure that any tough nuts to crack will get the attention of Russian air power with bunker busting bombs.

The Ukrainians have put up a fantastic resistance so far by using the terrain to their advantage but the Donbas could turn into a war of attrition that the Ukrainians simply cannot win. Therefore imho they must play shoot 'n scoot which will mean giving ground. But if they cause the Russians serious casualties they'll be happy with that if it means Putin will think twice before trying it on again. 

I guess we'll find out.

Have to admit that some of the footage of artillery using FAC drones has been mind blowing. 

Fingers crossed for them.  As you say, Kyiv and around there are lots of towns/villages and woodland.  Ideal for guerilla warfare that the Ukrainians have undertaken so well.  The plains of Donbas may well indeed play into the hands of the Russian tank/AFV doctrine.  But then again, we were all led to believe the Russians were 10ft tall super soldiers with cutting edge equipment, excellent training etc. 

Slava Ukraini.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The worrying thing with this war is that I am only seeing talk of the fighting and how well or poorly each side is fighting but this war needs to end as soon as possible.

It all seems completely nuts.

The Ukrainian isn't going to take back the Crimea and the Donbas. A long war of attrition with weapons pumped into the Ukraine has to be avoided at all costs.

It doesn't seem like China and the United States want to force negotiation.  Yet there is all this hypocrisy and weirdness about outrageous war crimes from the US but it just stands back.  The US can end this war but letting it continue is criminal too. Yet US and it's  longtime lapdog (Britain) just pour more heat into the war.

I don't disagree with giving arms to the Ukraine but the idea that the Ukraine that should be giving arms to crack on wherever the war takes it is dangerous and criminal.

[ManxTaxPayer]

 

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

The US can end this war but letting it continue is criminal too. Yet US and it's  longtime lapdog (Britain) just pour more heat into the war.

I presume you mean for the US to intervene through military action to end the war?  If so that would drag the rest of the NATO allies into the war and give Putin a reason to attack Western Europe.  You would also be looking at the use of nuclear weapons which is definitely not something anybody should want. 

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No, not at all.  I mean for the United States (and China) to put pressure on both countries to come to some form of agreement. 

The US wouldn't get involved militarily by declaring war, as things stand.  It has no reason to do so, thankfully. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by La_Dolce_Vita

[P.K.]

4 hours ago, The Phantom said:

But then again, we were all led to believe the Russians were 10ft tall super soldiers with cutting edge equipment, excellent training etc. 

So far the Phantasians have deployed mostly conscripts who are badly trained and motivated by one overriding objective - getting home in one piece....

Mind you, in the airborne assault of Antonov airport by so-called Russian "professionals" they were creamed by stubborn and motivated Ukrainians.

It would be nice to think that motivation will be the defining factor in this conflict but the longer it goes on the more folks will die...