Russia

[genericUserName]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:54 PM, La_Dolce_Vita said:

And it's the US and Britain principally pushing the Ukraine to continue whilst devaluing negotiations

Your consistent use of the definite article seems to hint at your indoctination. It is Ukraine. Not the Ukraine.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I assume you're joking. If you seriously think that my argument hints at (Russian?) indoctrination because I use the older or outdated  terms for referring to the region the that's a really stupid thing to coke out with.  

[La_Dolce_Vita]

5 hours ago, GD4ELI said:

Really - now that's total BS. Remember the sacrifices in WWII made by countries not directly affected. Sounds like you just don't care about anyone other than yourself.

Which countries are those? 

I don't know how you think the other poster cares about anyone but himself but presuming that you say this because he is questioning the lack of unqualified support for Ukraine, it seems to betray that you think that military support for Ukraine is done out of caring for what happens to its people.  I don't know where you get that idea from.

[woolley]

6 hours ago, Max Power said:

Of course it's BS, there's BS on all sides. What do the sacrifices made by countries not directly involved have to do with anything I have said?

And how do you come to that conclusion from me reporting what Russian media are telling their people about food shortages in the west, are you ok?

You're right. There is too much wanting to believe what we are told going on. All very easy to be brave when it's not you having your life blown up around you. There is no obvious or easy solution to this. The Russians are not simply going to pack up and go home.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

You're right. There is too much wanting to believe what we are told going on. All very easy to be brave when it's not you having your life blown up around you. There is no obvious or easy solution to this. The Russians are not simply going to pack up and go home.

There is an easy solution to this. Kill loads of Russian troops and destroy loads of Russian equipment and they will be forced to retreat.

That's not facetious. IMHO that is the only option. Can you think of an alternative?

Putin will only countenance discussing a political settlement that buys him time for his forces to re-arm, re-group and then have another go. Because if his offensive fails he's a dead man walking...

However a major outcome of Putin's attack on a western democracy has been to demonstrate to the world that the Red Army, which has cast a shadow over Europe since their victory at Stalingrad in 1943, is no match for NATO...

That's got to piss him off...

Goodski.

[The Phantom]

11 hours ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

I assume you're joking. If you seriously think that my argument hints at (Russian?) indoctrination because I use the older or outdated  terms for referring to the region the that's a really stupid thing to coke out with.  

Do say Chicken Kiev or Kyiv? 😉

[The Phantom]

8 hours ago, P.K. said:

since their victory at Stalingrad in 1943, is no match for NATO...

It doesn't really seemed to have changed since 1943 to be honest. 

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

It doesn't really seemed to have changed since 1943 to be honest. 

Some of those poor young Russki kids are more than likely armed with weapons from that era

[The Phantom]

4 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Some of those poor young Russki kids are more than likely armed with weapons from that era

And before and not just the Orc (although predominantly).  There are actually some really interesting videos on Youtube of "Weird Weapons in Ukraine".  Saw one a couple of days ago showing Maxim machine guns being used by Ukrainians.  They're from WW1!

Russia has been seen bringing in train loads of T55 tanks.  They're late 40s tech. 

[Roxanne]

I read a piece earlier from Dmitry Muratov, Russia's Nobel-winning journalist, about Putin getting his Russian citizens ready for nuclear war. Speeches, advertisements on TV. Full propaganda attack.Muratov believes it's him getting them sued to idea that launching a nuclear weapon isn't such a bad idea - on an Island perhaps. He also highlighted how to the old people Putin is like a grandson, while, at the same time they are quite happing sending their real grandsons off to be killed. That seems to be the level of propaganda there.

The hope lies with the young but Russian government forces just aren't going to let anything substantial happen I guess.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

12 hours ago, P.K. said:

There is an easy solution to this. Kill loads of Russian troops and destroy loads of Russian equipment and they will be forced to retreat.

That's not facetious. IMHO that is the only option. Can you think of an alternative?

Putin will only countenance discussing a political settlement that buys him time for his forces to re-arm, re-group and then have another go. Because if his offensive fails he's a dead man walking...

However a major outcome of Putin's attack on a western democracy has been to demonstrate to the world that the Red Army, which has cast a shadow over Europe since their victory at Stalingrad in 1943, is no match for NATO...

That's got to piss him off...

Goodski.

I don't think enough is known here to assume that negotiations would just be treated a tool for buying time.

The first thing that comes to mind when you mention forcing them retreat is what comes next? Does retreat means the end of war here?  And what the risk of escalation in the use of tactical nuclear weapons? If you really think that Putin is so single-minded on invasion and holding territory then I would have thought the risks of escalation are more likely.

And this is opposed to any view of the man that takes other considerations into account, such as the effects on Russian's geopolitical position, economic and military strength.  

With the failures of the Russian military (and the overt US support), it would have been apparent to him months into the conflict that it was a mistake to invade the Ukraine.  

Worth bearing in mind that Russia didn't throw everything it had into this conflict from the start to cripple the  Ukraine.   If he had then things might very well have been different. He miscalculated.  Would you not think that with everything that has happened that he would be deterred from aggression again in this part of the world?  I know you don't think this but I don't know why you think a retreat changes everything.

 

 

[manxman1980]

@La_Dolce_Vita

I think it was the Finnish Prime Minister who recently described Russian negotiating tactics.

Essentially they make outrageous over the top demands that they know will not be accepted and simply refuse to move their position. 

Simultaneously they make threats of military or economic consequences.

The Western Governments, fearing the potential consequences,  offer up something.  Maybe that is a third of the Russian demands.  Russia makes many complaints but accepts the offer and now has a "victory" without having conceded anything. 

Then wash and repeat...

[P.K.]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:44 PM, La_Dolce_Vita said:

I don't think enough is known here to assume that negotiations would just be treated a tool for buying time.

The first thing that comes to mind when you mention forcing them retreat is what comes next? Does retreat means the end of war here?  And what the risk of escalation in the use of tactical nuclear weapons? If you really think that Putin is so single-minded on invasion and holding territory then I would have thought the risks of escalation are more likely.

And this is opposed to any view of the man that takes other considerations into account, such as the effects on Russian's geopolitical position, economic and military strength.  

With the failures of the Russian military (and the overt US support), it would have been apparent to him months into the conflict that it was a mistake to invade the Ukraine.  

Worth bearing in mind that Russia didn't throw everything it had into this conflict from the start to cripple the  Ukraine.   If he had then things might very well have been different. He miscalculated.  Would you not think that with everything that has happened that he would be deterred from aggression again in this part of the world?  I know you don't think this but I don't know why you think a retreat changes everything.

There are, of course, many unknowns including the Russians themselves - "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" according to Churchill. So the best thing anyone can do is deal with the here and now and leave the "what if's" to a time when the invasion is stopped. Because while lots of folks pontificate on unanswerable questions like those above the Russian advance grinds forward yard by yard.

A couple of days ago Putin signed a decree to conscript another 150k muzhiks into the Red Army. This is usual for the spring. Of course, the big difference in this conscription is that everyone knows where they are headed... Hopefully this could cause problems.

The things we do know is that Putin either severely miscalculated or was told a load of porkies about the Red Army's capabilities or probably both. So his attempt to take control of the entire country via an assault on Kiev failed. But it signalled his intentions from the off. Puppet Lukashenko went on tv with a map showing assaults on Kiev, the Donbas and along the south coast to invade Moldova cutting Ukraine off from the sea in the process.

The question is will Putin survive a failed "special operation" or not?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:04 AM, P.K. said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, P.K. said:

There are, of course, many unknowns including the Russians themselves - "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" according to Churchill. So the best thing anyone can do is deal with the here and now and leave the "what if's" to a time when the invasion is stopped. Because while lots of folks pontificate on unanswerable questions like those above the Russian advance grinds forward yard by yard.

A couple of days ago Putin signed a decree to conscript another 150k muzhiks into the Red Army. This is usual for the spring. Of course, the big difference in this conscription is that everyone knows where they are headed... Hopefully this could cause problems.

The things we do know is that Putin either severely miscalculated or was told a load of porkies about the Red Army's capabilities or probably both. So his attempt to take control of the entire country via an assault on Kiev failed. But it signalled his intentions from the off. Puppet Lukashenko went on tv with a map showing assaults on Kiev, the Donbas and along the south coast to invade Moldova cutting Ukraine off from the sea in the process.

The question is will Putin survive a failed "special operation" or not?

He may have been told porkies but miscalculated, without a doubt.  The invasion campaign was limited. Russia didn't go straight in and wipe out Ukraine infrastructure.  Why didn't Russia take down power stations, railways, bridges, water processing, etc. across the country?  It must have thought that this was not necessary and possibly to avoid incurring too much disdain across the world.  That was achieved. Only the west and Japan were up in arms about the invasion from the start. But clearly he didn't realise how much support Ukraine would get.

You mention 'what ifs' but I'm assuming you mean a retreat closer to Russian borders but not the Ukraine pushing Russia out of the Donbas and Crimea entirely. I just don't think that's likely.  If it did happen, then there is nothing to stop the conflict rumbling on.  Russia is going to walk away from this with something. If it doesn't get something then it would only embolden them to fight on. Ukraine doesn't have the ability to entirely exhaust Russia.

Failed 'special op' by the Ukrainians? Who is training people for doing something like that? 

[genericUserName]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:44 PM, La_Dolce_Vita said:

the risk of escalation in the use of tactical nuclear weapons?

This is not some thing that might somehow just somehow happen all on its own. Only Russia is threatening to use nuclear weapons. 

3 hours ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

Ukraine doesn't have the ability to entirely exhaust Russia.

The West seems to have signalled that the use of nuclear weapons would likely result in the Black Sea Fleet being sunk. Let's hope that Ukraine will be given the capability and training to make that happen.