P.K. Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Max Power said: The Russians will be helping Donald Trump again they can control old Donald. Although I think it won't be too long before a lot of the help which Ukraine has been getting from Europe and the US begins to wane? They will need to make their gains while they can. Perhaps they will be forced by Trump, if elected, to negotiate away part of their land as Russia and Putin can't be seen to lose? I think the support from the EU will continue no matter what. However if Trump gets in the moron will stop the US making a contribution. The Russians know this of course which is why they're simply trying to hold on to what they've gained... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 (edited) On 9/16/2023 at 12:19 PM, Max Power said: The Russians will be helping Donald Trump again they can control old Donald. Although I think it won't be too long before a lot of the help which Ukraine has been getting from Europe and the US begins to wane? They will need to make their gains while they can. Perhaps they will be forced by Trump, if elected, to negotiate away part of their land as Russia and Putin can't be seen to lose? On 9/16/2023 at 12:31 PM, P.K. said: I think the support from the EU will continue no matter what. However if Trump gets in the moron will stop the US making a contribution. The Russians know this of course which is why they're simply trying to hold on to what they've gained... Well, the Donald did say he would end the war within 24 hours of being voted in. Edited September 18, 2023 by The Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 A Wagner transport jet crashed on landing in Mali a few days ago, allegedly killing over 100 troops. I've seen the video, ot wasn't shot down, but still..... seems very convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 12:31 PM, P.K. said: I think the support from the EU will continue no matter what. However if Trump gets in the moron will stop the US making a contribution. The Russians know this of course which is why they're simply trying to hold on to what they've gained... If US stops military aid there's little point in anyone else continuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 36 minutes ago, woolley said: If US stops military aid there's little point in anyone else continuing. Why? Looks like Russia is seriously weakened with little effective support. The biggest threat to Ukraine now appears to be Trump becoming president and lifting trade sanctions. European nations should continue to support Ukraine against the aggressive invader. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 49 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Why? Looks like Russia is seriously weakened with little effective support. The biggest threat to Ukraine now appears to be Trump becoming president and lifting trade sanctions. European nations should continue to support Ukraine against the aggressive invader. I fear that Russia's serious weakness is somewhat overstated in the rose tinted narrative we receive. Even if the fighting stops they aren't going away. They're still going to be across the border, just as big and just as ugly. They aren't going to change their view of the world either, and certainly not their view of Ukraine as their "borderland". If the US stops its military support, the EU and UK between them cannot begin to take up the slack. It would just mean more people dying for nothing. It isn't a judgment that needs to be taken now, of course. The earliest Trump could change anything, even if he were to be elected, would be early 2025, so almost as much time again as has elapsed since the invasion. By then, we will know for sure whether anything comes of the counteroffensive or it's destined to be a bloody stalemate. Long term, would any student of history bet against Russia retaking the country yet again? The past 30 years have simply been the ebb tide of Russian power and confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 "Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner warlord, died when a hand grenade exploded inside his aircraft while he and his fellow mercenaries were probably drunk or high on drugs, President Putin has claimed. Prigozhin’s private jet plummeted to the ground shortly after take-off from Moscow on August 23, killing all ten people on board, including Dmitry Utkin, his right-hand man. The incident came two months after Prigozhin and his Wagner group of mercenaries had launched an unprecedented armed rebellion against Moscow. “Fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the crash,” Putin told the Valdai forum in Sochi, a resort city on Russia’s Black Sea coast. “There was no external impact on the plane — this is already an established fact.” Even though it was quite clearly missing a wing and had an intact fuselage on the way down! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 On 10/6/2023 at 9:57 AM, The Phantom said: "Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner warlord, died when a hand grenade exploded inside his aircraft while he and his fellow mercenaries were probably drunk or high on drugs, President Putin has claimed. Prigozhin’s private jet plummeted to the ground shortly after take-off from Moscow on August 23, killing all ten people on board, including Dmitry Utkin, his right-hand man. The incident came two months after Prigozhin and his Wagner group of mercenaries had launched an unprecedented armed rebellion against Moscow. “Fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the crash,” Putin told the Valdai forum in Sochi, a resort city on Russia’s Black Sea coast. “There was no external impact on the plane — this is already an established fact.” Even though it was quite clearly missing a wing and had an intact fuselage on the way down! are you doubting Putin's account of what happened... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Let us not be distracted by the Middle East situation. Some interesting developments in the last couple of days. They now have ATACAMS (I always think that sounds made up) and used them in short order on a Russian airfield, taking out around 10 helicopters, including 5 of the much vaunted KA-52. Ukraine have also set up another bridgehead across the Dnipro. This one very close to a village that would cut the supply lines in that area. They're still chugging along bit by bit. I also learned that 60% of the cash aid being sent is actually being spent in the US. War is good for business. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 43 minutes ago, The Phantom said: I also learned that 60% of the cash aid being sent is actually being spent in the US. War is good for business. Sadly, this doesn't surprise me. I'd bet a good portion of that 60% doesn't benefit Ukraine in any way. A bit like how loads of covid relief cash in the UK never benefited ordinary UK citizens. Or am I just being overly cynical today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, Zarley said: Or am I just being overly cynical today? Nope believe it. It's the way of most donations and charities. I have donated quite a bit directly to people I know on the ground out there. At least even if they are spending it on fags and ice creams whilst not on the front lines, I think it's a better use of my money. Although admittedly America's gun culture probably does benefit Ukraine. All those weapons and equipment just floating about in the civilian world are freely purchasable and are being shipped (and donated) to Ukraine. All that private industry involvement and use for leisure also creates some great R&D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 The longer it goes on, the less likely it seems to me that the Russians are ever going to get out of Ukraine. As has been said, much of the US military aid is in the form of contracts placed within the US which is often the case with aid money in general. It's good for business is for sure, and they have the Ukrainians giving it to the Russkies, and degrading their kit and personnel. Does anyone seriously think Ukraine is winning though? It looks like a stalemate that could go on indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 10 hours ago, woolley said: Does anyone seriously think Ukraine is winning though? Open source data only confirmed with actual photograph evidence. Ukrainian equipment/vehicle losses = 4,604 https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html?m=1 Russian losses = 12,656 https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, The Phantom said: Open source data only confirmed with actual photograph evidence. Ukrainian equipment/vehicle losses = 4,604 https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html?m=1 Russian losses = 12,656 https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1 If true, that's impressive, but it doesn't alter my view of the long term. Russian losses almost three times those of Ukraine, but their equipment capability outguns Ukraine tenfold. They are not going to accept the huge humiliation involved in giving up and going home even if they wanted to, and there is no evidence that they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/21/2023 at 11:48 AM, woolley said: Russian losses almost three times those of Ukraine, but their equipment capability outguns Ukraine tenfold. They are not going to accept the huge humiliation involved in giving up and going home even if they wanted to, and there is no evidence that they do. @woolley Not quite true. Their equipment capability may have the numbers but it lacks "smart" capability. The Russians seem to be still using WW2 tactics where every assault began with a barrage of artillery and Katyusha rockets fired in the general area of the enemy before tanks and infantry were fed into the meat grinder. For some years now NATO artillery have claimed they can drop a shell into a dustbin from 25 miles away. Although why you would want to destroy someone's rubbish was never explained... Anyway, the point is that one round that hits is worth any number of Russian rounds that miss. However the Russians have already lost something very important to them. The much vaunted Red Army, feared throughout Europe since it's defeat of the German Sixth Army at Stalingrad and it's sweep into Germany and eventually Berlin, has been shown to be absolutely no match for it's NATO counterparts. The downside is that their human stockpile is enormous. Their commanders also seem to have no qualms whatsoever about massive losses in their rank and file. So no change there then. So basically they're stuck where they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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