DBC Megathread

[ManxTaxPayer]

4 hours ago, hissingsid said:

The Bee Gees statue is about the only decent idea Douglas Town Council has had for many a year.

The Dancers is way better than the Bee Gees. The latter is too one dimensional and a bit of a depressing vision of what the prom might try to be. Hitching a ride if you like, on a fairly corny snapshot of cultural accomplishment. They're certainly a woman's man. I find it slightly creepy. Although it comfortably inserts itself into the portfolio of Norman and the lamp post dude. The Dancers is much more subtle. 

[joebean]

2 hours ago, Max Power said:

This is exactly the problem, people shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing a hobby though, just because the Soviet Republic of Douglas doesn't see why anyone should enjoy themselves when not everyone can do the same thing!

The area where the motorhomes were parked is laid out as a, wait for it, motorhome park! How is parking them over the winter a problem?

When I saw them being moved and the huge boulders and barriers being erected, I saw the pettiness and unwillingness of our communist council to provide facilities to assist people they perceive to be rich wankers! They were happy to push the problem onto the streets, and as you hint at, legislate in future against that.   

The whole issue was exaggerated from the start, and smacked of petty minded bureaucracy and over reaction. A few truck trailers could have been legislated against and a permit system for motorhomes was all that was needed!

Exactly this Max. we put people into positions of authority to make things better, largely. The tendency is for people we elect and officials to use that authority to legislate and prevent things from happening rather than finding ways to permit things happening. I don't know why this happens but I think it is about what giving power to individuals who other wise would not have it does to the average person and also what I mentioned earlier; that the easiest route is the route that stops something; if you stop it, the hope is that no further action will be necessary. However if you adopt an approach tries to facilitate something, more often than not further actions will be necessary. Most people are fundamentally lazy and will do the thing that promises to have the least ongoing liability in terms of thought and effort. A situation that Amadeus describes where somebody suggests something and officers then go away to examine the suggestion and make recommendations will likely always result in nothing happening except some new rule to prevent something being put in place. This is why our Councils and Governments are so slow to do anything except discuss, review and refer. 

I wonder how many years Douglas has had a Regeneration Committee. I suspect if you compare the number of meetings and proposals with the number of tangible actions taken, the successful outcome ratio would not be very favourable. Take a look around Douglas. The proof of the pudding and all that... 

[Non-Believer]

7 minutes ago, joebean said:

Exactly this Max. we put people into positions of authority to make things better, largely. The tendency is for people we elect and officials to use that authority to legislate and prevent things from happening rather than finding ways to permit things happening. I don't know why this happens..

Because they can be be offered things to their own advantage for not rocking the boat and advocating and instigating change. The system doesn't like change. It creates work for otherwise comfortable careers.

Change can involve disadvantage for some. Play the cards right, deflect change, contain it and life is easier, right through to the pension.

[Amadeus]

9 hours ago, joebean said:

Exactly this Max. we put people into positions of authority to make things better, largely. The tendency is for people we elect and officials to use that authority to legislate and prevent things from happening rather than finding ways to permit things happening. I don't know why this happens but I think it is about what giving power to individuals who other wise would not have it does to the average person and also what I mentioned earlier; that the easiest route is the route that stops something; if you stop it, the hope is that no further action will be necessary. However if you adopt an approach tries to facilitate something, more often than not further actions will be necessary. Most people are fundamentally lazy and will do the thing that promises to have the least ongoing liability in terms of thought and effort. A situation that Amadeus describes where somebody suggests something and officers then go away to examine the suggestion and make recommendations will likely always result in nothing happening except some new rule to prevent something being put in place. This is why our Councils and Governments are so slow to do anything except discuss, review and refer. 

I wonder how many years Douglas has had a Regeneration Committee. I suspect if you compare the number of meetings and proposals with the number of tangible actions taken, the successful outcome ratio would not be very favourable. Take a look around Douglas. The proof of the pudding and all that... 

Just to repeat this: the proposal was not rejected in principle but because of the business case attached to it. Again, we have to consider everything, not just the interests of one group. You think strongly about this because it concerns something you like and have an interest in. Instead of saying "the guy doesn't know xyz" like Manx1t further up, go and contact me with information, numbers, letters of support saying "hey we want this and there are 123 of us who want that too". Organise a meet up. I'll gladly meet you and others at town hall to discuss. Give me something I can take into committee to argue your side and make a sound business case for this. There's still every chance we can have something in place for next winter. 

Comments like yours are not only factually wrong, they also aren't helping, although I appreciate that communicating what the council actually does to the public has not really been a strong point in the past, which is probably why you think we're surrounded by Business Prevention Officers while sitting on our golden thrones in ivory town hall. That's simply not the case. There are certain procedures and ways things are done. Most of this is by committee and yes, this can be a slow and frustrating process. I don't like it either but that's the way it is done and it does need some structure, as otherwise we'll get criticised again for just doing things willy nilly and because one or two people shouted the loudest. We have a new comms firm now and I'm planning to sit down with them and town hall and see how we can be more open and share more of what we do. With we I mean how much I can tweet and post on Facebook. I don't like that much of what we do isn't immediately visible to the public. 

Bit sad to be called lazy when essentially we're doing an extra job on top of our day jobs and spend quite a bit of time doing it. Again, might just be that this isn't obvious to the public and perception is everything these days. Town hall officers who look into these matters and prepare reports for the purpose of them then being discussed in committee also have limited time and are doing the best they can within their resource allocations. If we employed more or gave them more time we'd get criticised again for doing it. Not from you, but from the next person who'll say we spend too much time looking at this and not at their chosen subject. So your best chance to still get this done is to help me make the case for it. cllr.fschuengel@douglas.gov.im I appreciate this has been a topic for some while but I only joined the committee last year, so feel free to hand me as much info as you like as I may not be aware of past information and discussions. I can also do some more digging internally and see what we have on file. I need things like: how many vehicles can we expect to use the facility, what types, size, weight, etc (Vdubs or full on Winnebago or both?), what do owners expect, what facilities / security (fence? trickle chargers?) and what are you willing to pay for it. 

Finally, having just checked my notes on this, it seems it's not just us you need to win over. Comrade Max Power may be right that it's motorhome parking already, but that's short term. For long term storage, as far as I am aware, planning permission would be needed and from what I can see, that might not be easy to get. 

[Augustus]

One person's happy holiday campervan is someone else's pig-ugly, rusting eyesore blocking the view outside their house. You have to draw a line somewhere in the middle.

[Augustus]

The kind of response that says provided my cat shits in my neighbour's garden it's their problem.

[joebean]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

Just to repeat this: the proposal was not rejected in principal but because of the business case attached to it. Again, we have to consider everything, not just the interests of one group. You think strongly about this because it concerns something you like and have an interest in. Instead of saying "the guy doesn't know xyz" like Manx1t further up, go and contact me with information, numbers, letters of support saying "hey we want this and there are 123 of us who want that too". Organise a meet up. I'll gladly meet you and others at town hall to discuss. Give me something I can take into committee to argue your side and make a sound business case for this. There's still every chance we can have something in place for next winter. 

Comments like yours are not only factually wrong, they also aren't helping, although I appreciate that communicating what the council actually does to the public has not really been a strong point in the past, which is probably why you think we're surrounded by Business Prevention Officers while sitting on our golden thrones in ivory town hall. That's simply not the case. There are certain procedures and ways things are done. Most of this is by committee and yes, this can be a slow and frustrating process. I don't like it either but that's the way it is done and it does need some structure, as otherwise we'll get criticised again for just doing things willy nilly and because one or two people shouted the loudest. We have a new comms firm now and I'm planning to sit down with them and town hall and see how we can be more open and share more of what we do. With we I mean how much I can tweet and post on Facebook. I don't like that much of what we do isn't immediately visible to the public. 

Bit sad to be called lazy when essentially we're doing an extra job on top of our day jobs and spend quite a bit of time doing it. Again, might just be that this isn't obvious to the public and perception is everything these days. Town hall officers who look into these matters and prepare reports for the purpose of them then being discussed in committee also have limited time and are doing the best they can within their resource allocations. If we employed more or gave them more time we'd get criticised again for doing it. Not from you, but from the next person who'll say we spend too much time looking at this and not at their chosen subject. So your best chance to still get this done is to help me make the case for it. cllr.fschuengel@douglas.gov.im I appreciate this has been a topic for some while but I only joined the committee last year, so feel free to hand me as much info as you like as I may not be aware of past information and discussions. I can also do some more digging internally and see what we have on file. I need things like: how many vehicles can we expect to use the facility, what types, size, weight, etc (Vdubs or full on Winnebago or both?), what do owners expect, what facilities / security (fence? trickle chargers?) and what are you willing to pay for it. 

Finally, having just checked my notes on this, it seems it's not just us you need to win over. Comrade Max Power may be right that it's motorhome parking already, but that's short term. For long term storage, as far as I am aware, planning permission would be needed and from what I can see, that might not be easy to get. 

For clarity, I was not suggesting councillors were lazy. I was expressing an opinion, from some years in various work environments, some public sector, that the natural tendency with change is to avoid it. I would say that Town Halls are not places where a high number of entrepreneurial or adaptive people are employed and thus, Business Cases (a strangely used term I often found within the public sector) are often reviewed very critically. 
I agree, local authorities do need councillors who consult, seek information, seek change and avoid self-interest or preconceived ideas. Communication strategies certainly could be improved and I applaud your efforts in this regard. You will possibly meet a some resistance. As for motorhome storage and parking in Douglas, I don’t have any particular interest. My vehicle sits on my property, connected to my electricity and under its own cover, some way from Douglas. Owners there can fight their own corner. I do sympathise with residents who have vans parked in streets, blocking views and access. It’s a problem for which solutions rather than enforcements need to be found. 

[TheTeapot]

Local authorities need councillors who represent the best interests of the town itself, not the council.

[Amadeus]

16 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

I just don’t think you are getting it though. It seems Douglas council are putting it to the people that they are  trying to sort out a  service and problem that’s been created by Douglas council. Everyone pays their vehicle tax and insurance. There should be no reason why they can’t park their vehicle outside their own homes.  I think some have been watching to many gypsy programs and the ones that haven’t are saying . Hmm that’s a 50k toy how much can we make of that because a councillor in Douglas corporation has one that price. Some people can buy a camper or motor home for less then 10 grand and a price tag is put on it. But your next door neighbour can have a vehicle that cost 25 grand and nothing is said. It’s discrimination and power controlling . This island is getting so backwards for what ? 

Parking outside your house is DOI, not Council. They took the roads off DBC a long time ago. What we can actually do in this regard is limited, although we can always try and engage. The prom parking rules, for example, were given to me as draft by the DOI and I circulated them online, gathered feedback and fed that back to them, influencing the final rules in the process. 

[WTF]

2 hours ago, Augustus said:

The kind of response that says provided my cat shits in my neighbour's garden it's their problem.

it would be the dead cats problem if it was my garden.

[Gladys]

12 minutes ago, WTF said:

it would be the dead cats problem if it was my garden.

Nice. 

[Kopek]

2 hours ago, Manx17 said:

No it’s kind of saying why do people find the time to involve themselves in other peoples business and how they enjoy themselves whilst on the planet. If people were allowed to park outside their own house.

Yeah! Let's have a vote on Anarchy. Maybe.

[ManxTaxPayer]

2 hours ago, Augustus said:

The kind of response that says provided my cat shits in my neighbour's garden it's their problem.

Pitt Squits. 

[littlebushy]

Kit shits?

[Max Power]

@AmadeusI don't think joebean was having a go at councilors, more at the attitude that pervades amongst some public servants. Everything is just too much trouble to many of them and you will be advised accordingly! Worse still, they can make sure that things that they advised against don't work out, to teach you a lesson! 

That's the way they will grind you down and keep you in line, it's a time honoured traditional method.