Report has major implications for Manx legislature

[Ghost Ship]

48 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Priests, vicars, bishops, imams, rabbis, people of the cloth, are all confidence tricksters, selling a big lie. They're good at it too, which is why people over the years have struggled to believe the kids they've abused.

I'm afraid there's probably a lot in what you say.  If your job is to sell something fake in the first place, then it probably becomes easier than it should be to lie and to dissemble, and you don't even realise you are doing it.

Nothing to do with child abuse, but I've often found it strange that one of the most unpleasant and generally disagreeable people that I ever knew went on to become a methodist minister.  And is still doing it last time I checked, although must be nearing retirement - if they ever retire.

[The Phantom]

15 hours ago, Gladys said:

Paedos were probably around for centuries, if not millennia.  The difference now is there has been a shift in how children have been viewed, particularly those of 'the lower classes'.  The concept of a protected childhood is a relatively new phenomenon.  

A few years ago, going on a tour of Pompeii, the guide explained some of what we would consider Roman excesses, including paedophilia.  The group gasped, but the guide reminded the group that at the time there was no stigma attached to it, for either the victim or perpetrator and was 'what people did' then.   That kind of raised a train of thought about the stigma rather than the act being the main cause of injury.  Not that I am defending paedophilia in any shape or form as it clearly now has a devastating effect, but it was an interesting perspective.  

It was more than accepted, virtually encouraged by the ancient Greeks. 

Spartan boys at the Agoge would have a 'special uncle' that would look after, mentor, train and other things.... 

[quilp]

Bacha bazi is still rife in Afghanistan and northwestern Pakistan. The customary practice of the taking of young boys for pleasure. Police unable to take effective action against this disgusting fetish because many of those involved are high-ranking Taleban or local warlords.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

 

[Max Power]

18 hours ago, Gladys said:

 That kind of raised a train of thought about the stigma rather than the act being the main cause of injury.  Not that I am defending paedophilia in any shape or form as it clearly now has a devastating effect, but it was an interesting perspective.  

That's an interesting thought, kids are curious by nature and may be more regretful of the lasting stigma than of what they have actually done? It's still a horrible thing for adults to inflict on kids though!

Reverend Gregory was married with kids, he conducted my dad's funeral, and forgot his first name, twat!

Edited February 23, 2022 by Max Power

[Itsmeee]

23 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

The parents were never visited again by either the Bishop or the Archdeacon. Gregory remained in his post for a further year, during which the victim’s mother, a regular churchgoer, came into frequent contact with him, “having to listen to his sermons from the pulpit and having to deal with him, directly, to organise the requiem service details following the death of her mother”

I’m afraid the only way I would have come into frequent contact with that f***er would be to kick his f***ing head in for what he did to my child. In my mind the fact the parents didn’t report and continued to have contact makes them almost complicit. 

[Roger Mexico]

34 minutes ago, Itsmeee said:

I’m afraid the only way I would have come into frequent contact with that f***er would be to kick his f***ing head in for what he did to my child. In my mind the fact the parents didn’t report and continued to have contact makes them almost complicit. 

Actually if you read the Church Times piece the father of the child on the Isle Man did report what his daughter told him to the Bishop,  but the parents were promised that Gregory would leave the Island within six months (it took a year) if they kept quiet.  They must have thought that if they went to police everyone would just deny everything - you only have to look how long it took for Knottfield to come to the Courts.

[Ghost Ship]

4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually if you read the Church Times piece the father of the child on the Isle Man did report what his daughter told him to the Bishop,  but the parents were promised that Gregory would leave the Island within six months (it took a year) if they kept quiet.  They must have thought that if they went to police everyone would just deny everything - you only have to look how long it took for Knottfield to come to the Courts.

You are correct insofar that @Itsmeee is mistaken that the parents (or father) did not report the abuse -  they (or he) did.  But the Church Times article does go on to say that:

'Gregory remained in his post for a further year, during which the victim’s mother, a regular churchgoer, came into frequent contact with him, “having to listen to his sermons from the pulpit and having to deal with him, directly, to organise the requiem service details following the death of her mother” '

I might perhaps be being harsh, but the mother did not have to listen to his sermons or come into frequent contact with him at all - especially perhaps after the death of her mother, who - after all - was the grandmother of one of Gregory's victims!

I'm inclined to think like @Itsmeee, that if I'd been either parent of the victim in this case, I'd be strapping on my Scarpa Manta boots... 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ghost Ship

[Itsmeee]

To clarify I meant that the parents didn’t report to the police. I realise they reported to the church and were asked not to report to the police. My comment still stands. 

[Shake me up Judy]

Maybe the police did know... Given the way things were on the Island at the time it really wouldn't surprise me. It's hard to believe that such a prolific paedophile could operate for so long without being stopped. It happened at Knottfield too remember. The police were too busy chasing homosexuality...

[Non-Believer]

7 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Maybe the police did know... Given the way things were on the Island at the time it really wouldn't surprise me. It's hard to believe that such a prolific paedophile could operate for so long without being stopped. It happened at Knottfield too remember. The police were too busy chasing homosexuality...

And the Roly Drowers of this world.

[Roger Mexico]

16 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

I might perhaps be being harsh, but the mother did not have to listen to his sermons or come into frequent contact with him at all - especially perhaps after the death of her mother, who - after all - was the grandmother of one of Gregory's victims!

I'm inclined to think like @Itsmeee, that if I'd been either parent of the victim in this case, I'd be strapping on my Scarpa Manta boots... 

I think you are being harsh.  If the mother had withdrawn from her normal church activities, then friends would be asking the reason and she had been sworn to secrecy.  And there was always the possibility that if the parents broke their side of the 'bargain' that Gregory wouldn't have left the Island at all.

As for taking the law into their own hands, apart from the obvious risks that might just lead to the establishment closing ranks and the name of the family and hence the child becoming public.  I think you underestimate how helpless ordinary people felt in such situations.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Roger Mexico

[Shake me up Judy]

I remember those times well. Ordinary people were helpless, powerless and ignored. The Manx Establishment closed ranks and not even friends wanted to know. 

[Andy Onchan]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:48 PM, Barlow said:

How did the guy get away with it all that time on the Isle of Man?

A little off topic maybe, but these were murky days on the Isle of Man.

Gregory moved to Sodor and Man in 1975. The Bishop from 1974 to 1983 was Vernon Nicholls. Maybe Vernon was more interested in money than pastoral matters. He hit the headlines here andNationally for having taken his money out of the Savings & Investment Bank in January 1982 - a whole 6 months before it so publicly collapsed. Dominic Delaney MHK at the time asked what divine guidance had saved the Bishop's cash. The rumours were rife. Well after all, the Bishop could often be seen popping into the Upper Church Street SIB premises in his gaily coiloured gown and garb. But in a rather Savile-esque way the Bishop threatened "I can assure you that if any of these things are said in public I shall take legal action". He said he was advised by colleagues to move his money. 

It transpires that one of the Diocesan Board of Finance was also a manager at SIB, and whose obituary proudly stated him as being a confidant to the Bishop. Oh, and it further transpires that at the end of December 1981 someone had blown the lid off the SIB, but that was somehow kept quiet for another 6 months. January 1982 seemed as good a time as any to get yer money out of the scam bank.

Murky money more important than molesters maybe.

Said Bishop was a major player in the funny handshake and pinny wearing fraternity.... so 101% he wasn't the only one who was tipped off.