TheTeapot Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Maybe there are 7 (seven) genders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Maybe there are 7 (seven) genders Frankly, who knows or cares? It is about allowing individuals to be just that and educating in a responsible way. Nothing more. If the presentations or lessons were inappropriate then let's hear it and quick. Also how a reoccurrence will be prevented. The longer it drags on the more damage is done. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Gladys said: Frankly, who knows or cares? It is about allowing individuals to be just that and educating in a responsible way. Nothing more. If the presentations or lessons were inappropriate then let's hear it and quick. Also how a reoccurrence will be prevented. The longer it drags on the more damage is done. I see what you did there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Its all very confusing for a heterosexual male like myself who wants to be understanding but is faced with all sorts of conflicting ideas, theories etc. It seems to be unnecessarily complicated. Why can’t we all just live together in peace? The simplest way I can recommend is actually my general philosophy on the whole thing. If you don't get it, that's okay, just simply respect who the other person is. If that person is not causing harm to anyone else, leave them be. If you have to interact and you are unsure of pronouns or even disagree with using their preferred pronouns, just don't use pronouns at all. Case in point for a trans man.... If unsure or against: "Thank you, come again" If sure: "Thank you sir, come again" Be an idiot "Thank you MAM, come again" <--- Just don't do this, simple respect. I don't speak for anyone else when I say this but, I could give a toss who accepts me. My existence is for my own approval and my own approval alone. But I do believe we should at least respect one another if at all possible. Most of the issues I see people loosing their shit over are issues they themselves have created. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Chie said: The simplest way I can recommend is actually my general philosophy on the whole thing. If you don't get it, that's okay, just simply respect who the other person is. If that person is not causing harm to anyone else, leave them be. If you have to interact and you are unsure of pronouns or even disagree with using their preferred pronouns, just don't use pronouns at all. I know I said I wouldn’t engage any more . But you have your general philosophy I have mine. And that too is quite simple. Bar a few exceptions you are born with either a penis or a vagina. I think from following the arguments most would say that determines what sex you are. Re gender, apparently you can choose this, in the same way you can “ choose” what skin colour you are or the sort of family you would have chosen to been born into. Well I’m sorry you can’t. Why not let your sex by default be the gender you are? Not one of 73 or whatever If a man feels he was born a woman ( or vice versa) fine. Let him live the life of a woman. If he feels the need to have medical procedures to make him more a “ woman” equally fine. I’ll respect that I know I’ll be accused of “not getting it” per your comment above. And equally as you say respecting who that person is if they are not causing any harm I certainly would “leave them be” You will always get aggressive anti black/ anti gay / anti trans people who will resist any attempt to make them change their views. Depressingly I don’t think there is much you can do about it. I think this pronoun thing is an unwelcome distraction and really not worth making a big issue of .In the same way that some militant feminists may object to being called “love” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Re gender, apparently you can choose this, in the same way you can “ choose” what skin colour you are or the sort of family you would have chosen to been born into. Well I’m sorry you can’t. Why not let your sex by default be the gender you are? Not one of 73 or whatever You can't really choose your gender. The default is for your sex and gender to be aligned. But it isn't for everyone, so we need to make allowances for that in language and law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, HeliX said: You can't really choose your gender. The default is for your sex and gender to be aligned. But it isn't for everyone, so we need to make allowances for that in language and law. I think there can be a lot of peer pressure there sometimes...there does need to be a proper assessment period before people suddenly decide on which one. People need time to think and decide, whereas some people seem all too quick to demonstrate and decide for them. Some people get pushed far too early. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Re gender, apparently you can choose this, in the same way you can “ choose” what skin colour you are or the sort of family you would have chosen to been born into. Well I’m sorry you can’t. I think it’s fair to say you choose your gender no more than you choose your sexuality or any other characteristic beyond your control. It is a product of how your brain develops. You can’t pray it away, conversion therapy is a horrendous thing, whether it is for sexuality or gender identity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: I think there can be a lot of peer pressure there sometimes...there does need to be a proper assessment period before people suddenly decide on which one. People need time to think and decide, whereas some people seem all too quick to demonstrate and decide for them. Some people get pushed far too early. The flip side is that you don’t see the inner anguish that follows people before they make these decisions. Plus, it isn’t a pretty process to transition, it’s bureaucratically, surgically and medically exhausting. So whilst it may appear things move quickly, you haven’t seen the years of not feeling “right” leading up to that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 33 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: I think there can be a lot of peer pressure there sometimes...there does need to be a proper assessment period before people suddenly decide on which one. People need time to think and decide, whereas some people seem all too quick to demonstrate and decide for them. Some people get pushed far too early. There's often quite a lot of peer (and parental and societal) pressure to conform to the norm too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 4 hours ago, TheTeapot said: Maybe there are 7 (seven) genders There are really only two genders, the rest are life choices… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, Passing Time said: There are really only two genders, the rest are life choices… Maybe they’re all made up by the fella who wrote the book saying women should be subservient to their husbands and we should all fear the devil. Or the bit that says "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Professor Jordan Peterson first became famous for refusing to bow to new legislation in Canada which made it mandatory to use the pronouns demanded by others. Not just traditional ones, but nonsense like zee and zay (IIRC). He made it very clear that if asked by a reasonable person in a reasonable way he would probably comply, but not if the person making the demand was an attention-seeking troublemaker. I always thought that a reasonable approach. I have no issue with addressing a trans woman as she/her, but would have a problem if she had a beard. Eddie Izzard can wear lipstick and a frock but… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majkul Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, Passing Time said: There are really only two genders, the rest are life choices… I see what he did there. He sneaked the number 7 (seven) in another thread as well. On this day of all days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: Professor Jordan Peterson first became famous for refusing to bow to new legislation in Canada which made it mandatory to use the pronouns demanded by others. Not just traditional ones, but nonsense like zee and zay (IIRC). He made it very clear that if asked by a reasonable person in a reasonable way he would probably comply, but not if the person making the demand was an attention-seeking troublemaker. I always thought that a reasonable approach. I have no issue with addressing a trans woman as she/her, but would have a problem if she had a beard. Eddie Izzard can wear lipstick and a frock but… Professor Jordan Peterson isn’t exactly the best role model though, is he? He’s really just another quite right wing and loud white man; with an academic veneer over his fan base that can be co-opted with some really dark holes into incels and other aspects of the alt-right. He catapulted to fame by misrepresenting the Canadian bill that was being passed, making it sound like you would be arrested for using the wrong pronouns. Plus, what about the cisgender women who have beards? They do exist, and some wear them proudly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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