TheTeapot Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 20 minutes ago, HeliX said: Perhaps we should withhold counselling for depressed people until we can find a chromosomal explanation for that. Wouldnt want to treat someone without genetic proof... What you are basically saying to me is 'dont try to understand just do what you're told' I think it's a bit strange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: What you are basically saying to me is 'dont try to understand just do what you're told' I think it's a bit strange Currently, the waiting list for a first appointment is 5 years. https://gic.nhs.uk/appointments/waiting-times/ If you've waited 5 years and you're still sure, I'd be reasonably sure you're sure. There are too many uses of the word sure there. Of course, when you're referred, the first stage is assessment and counselling before they do anything else. You don't rock up to start getting things lopped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: So it's in your head then? Suggest it might be a form of mental illness and all hell breaks loose. You could say the same about being gay. Is it all in their heads? Does the fact it is, make it any less true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 hours ago, TheTeapot said: I had, perhaps unwisely, thought that someone would need some genetic proof, rather than desire. I forget sometimes that we live in a world where evidence is not required to demand change. What genetic proof? There isn’t a gene that’s been identified yet that says yes, although you are chromosomally XX that’s wrong for you so we should deal with you as if you were XY, or vice versa. Genetic testing won’t/can’t deliver evidence about social constructs, feelings, or most non congenital illnesses, whether mental or physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 This is why I'm asking. You're all so ridiculously defensive. Ask questions and get jumped on by chie, AC and Helix immediately, or fucking LDV earlier in the thread. I've got a year 7 boy, its fairly likely I might have to work through some of these concepts with him at some stage, concepts i dont really understand myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: This is why I'm asking. You're all so ridiculously defensive. Ask questions and get jumped on by chie, AC and Helix immediately, or fucking LDV earlier in the thread. I've got a year 7 boy, its fairly likely I might have to work through some of these concepts with him at some stage, concepts i dont really understand myself. I’ve really tried to describe things as I understand, in accordance with my understanding of the science. This is why it should be a curriculum thing, with no opt outs, taught dispassionately, and accurately. Parents aren’t equipped. Kids pick up all sorts of (mis) information in the playground and on line. Some parents think such a curriculum is the spawn of the devil and their children shouldn’t be exposed, for all sorts of ( non valid ) reasons ( in my opinion ). Those are just the kids who probably do need the curriculum. But you’re correct. The line between it being a mental illness - gender or body dysphoria, which we are unable to treat with pills, and allowing people to live their lives in the gender they feel is correct, and gender reaffirming surgery, is neither a straightforward one nor is it a hard and fast one. some FTM want both upper and lower surgery. Breast removal and penis construction. Others only ever go for breast removal and are happy with the growth of their clitoris due to testosterone. I know trans women in both camps. It’s a personal thing, and should be entirely their choice. I know a lovely FTM guy, who works in law. Highly intelligent. Known him a decade. Only came out to me at Christmas. I suspect, family apart, I might be the only person on island who knows. He moved here after transitioning in London. Do I see him differently? No. Why should I. As for MTF there’s certainly some who don’t have lower surgery. The androgen feminises and turns them into eunuchs ( chemically castrated and floppy ). Most develop breasts and many have implants. Perhaps we all get to het up about what someone has between their legs. Isn’t it the fact they’re nice, warm, friendly, loving, caring, more important than what pegs go into what holes, or even whether there are pegs and holes. The important thing for me is compassion and acceptance, it’s what I wanted coming out as gay 50 years ago. I really don’t think it’s any difference. That should be taught at school, along with stuff like “sex” isn’t just pegs in holes, but many other things. And that whatever sex you engage in that consent and respect come first, along with safety. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 44 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: This is why I'm asking. You're all so ridiculously defensive. Ask questions and get jumped on by chie, AC and Helix immediately, or fucking LDV earlier in the thread. I've got a year 7 boy, its fairly likely I might have to work through some of these concepts with him at some stage, concepts i dont really understand myself. The process is reasonably complex to actually get a diagnosis and start treatment. And treatment may be counselling, it may be medical. You first either reach out to a gender identity pathway, or to your GP, who will then refer you for counselling and assessment. Once you get there, you talk to a specialist who will ask about various factors in your life, and may or may not give you a diagnosis of gender incongruence. That initial reaching out is usually done after a lot of soul-searching, it isn't just done on a whim. Gender dysphoria was classed as a mental disorder by the WHO until 2018. See below for some of the diagnostic criteria now. There are also varying amounts of times that you've had to had experienced these symptoms to get the initial diagnosis. Quote A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics) A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics) A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender A strong desire to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender) A strong desire to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender) A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender) In order to meet criteria for the diagnosis, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 3 hours ago, TheTeapot said: What you are basically saying to me is 'dont try to understand just do what you're told' I think it's a bit strange Eh? That's not what I was trying to suggest, I'm just refuting the thought that something has to be diagnosable with tests we currently are able to perform in order to be valid. The reason I support the treatment I do is the overwhelming body of evidence: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snaefell Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 3 hours ago, TheTeapot said: This is why I'm asking. You're all so ridiculously defensive. Ask questions and get jumped on by chie, AC and Helix immediately, or fucking LDV earlier in the thread. I've got a year 7 boy, its fairly likely I might have to work through some of these concepts with him at some stage, concepts i dont really understand myself. Wouldn't it be great then if teachers were able to work through these concepts with your son and others in a safe nurturing environment, it would help parents no end! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr Snaefell said: Wouldn't it be great then if teachers were able to work through these concepts with your son and others in a safe nurturing environment, it would help parents no end! That's why the curriculum was instigated in the first place. Parents felt they didn't know the right way to convey the message to their children, hence it was taken up by teachers. In an ideal world, it would be done in the safe nurturing environment of the child's home by their loving parents/carers/guardians. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Mr Snaefell with his inaccuracies is just the man to listen to….not . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snaefell Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, hissingsid said: Mr Snaefell with his inaccuracies is just the man to listen to….not . Hiss away, little man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 You are so obvious Snaefell just get your facts right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, hissingsid said: You are so obvious Snaefell just get your facts right. Which facts did he get wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snaefell Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Gladys said: Which facts did he get wrong? I think I scared the little ignoramus Mr Hissy Fit with some knowledge, aw bless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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