Ghost Ship Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/15/2023 at 6:04 PM, HeliX said: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/25/transgender-wrestler-mack-beggs-wins-texas-girls-title But Mack Beggs isn't a good example of what @Two-lane was really getting at, are they? As a transman (undergoing testosterone therapy) Beggs has only had significant competition successes against women, and then only at college level. And some of those successes were contributed to by female opponents voluntarily forfeiting their matches in protest at having to fight him. I'm aware Beggs participated in some boy's tournaments at high school, but even though there was very little male competiton at such a light weight (< 110lbs?) they couldn't achieve the same sort of success that they later did (aided by testosterone) against women. What would be notable would be to see a transmale competing successfully (or even just respectably) in sports where power, strength, limb length, speed, lean body mass, and sheer size give biological males an advantage. I doubt we'll ever see an example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 24 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said: But Mack Beggs isn't a good example of what @Two-lane was really getting at, are they? As a transman (undergoing testosterone therapy) Beggs has only had significant competition successes against women, and then only at college level. And some of those successes were contributed to by female opponents voluntarily forfeiting their matches in protest at having to fight him. I'm aware Beggs participated in some boy's tournaments at high school, but even though there was very little male competiton at such a light weight (< 110lbs?) they couldn't achieve the same sort of success that they later did (aided by testosterone) against women. What would be notable would be to see a transmale competing successfully (or even just respectably) in sports where power, strength, limb length, speed, lean body mass, and sheer size give biological males an advantage. I doubt we'll ever see an example. The brief given in the comment I replied to was: "I don't recall seeing anything about people who want to trans-it in the other direction - people who were born female and want to compete in the male divisions. There must be some, somewhere." What I linked was exactly an example of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Interesting piece about gender ideology and young people. While I can understand the need to teach compassion and acceptance for trans people in schools, among some there are genuine worries about the unprecedented increase in people saying they are trans - is it a result of greater acceptance, or, in part, a social contagion, particularly among the vulnerable young, going through the physical and mental changes that 'growing up' entails? https://open.substack.com/pub/colinwright/p/gender-ideology-impacts-everyone?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, Hoops said: Interesting piece about gender ideology and young people. While I can understand the need to teach compassion and acceptance for trans people in schools, among some there are genuine worries about the unprecedented increase in people saying they are trans - is it a result of greater acceptance, or, in part, a social contagion, particularly among the vulnerable young, going through the physical and mental changes that 'growing up' entails? https://open.substack.com/pub/colinwright/p/gender-ideology-impacts-everyone?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email An interesting read, but so skewed by her anti trans ideology and agenda. She’s a social worker, not a medic, who counsels, but mainly pontificates rather than practises ( perhaps trans people should be grateful ). Problem is, apart from her lack of qualification, that she offers no solution, no alternative, just criticism. She raises the alleged damage that is done to parents, children, siblings, extended family by the trans person cutting themselves off because they are “infected” by trans ideology. But in my experience it’s the other way round, it’s families who exclude because of ( often ) religious belief or irrational objection. She seems to think that the rejected trans is the one needing treatment rather than the non accepting family. OK it’s probably both. Her stance seems driven by her contact with a very few FTM individuals who, some after many years, are de transitioning. That’s a very, very, small minority group in the trans community. I’m not sure what, if anything, can be drawn from her anecdotal observations. They’ve no scientific credence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 He said the current programme started five years ago when it actually started last September a date no one is disputing . He even put some kind of notice on the forum. He has now resorted to name calling….so boring and unnessesary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, hissingsid said: He said the current programme started five years ago when it actually started last September a date no one is disputing . He even put some kind of notice on the forum. He has now resorted to name calling….so boring and unnessesary. I’m not defending. Did he say that. He linked to the English curriculum ( on which the Manx one is based ) and that did commence in 2019 after several years consultation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snaefell Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 No, I didn't. I said 3 years ago, in 5 schools. https://www.gov.im/media/184874/rse-policy-update-010920.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr Snaefell said: No, I didn't. I said 3 years ago, in 5 schools. https://www.gov.im/media/184874/rse-policy-update-010920.pdf Except that’s only 2.5 years ago, is a policy statement and the actual curriculum wasn’t introduced until September 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: Except that’s only 2.5 years ago, is a policy statement and the actual curriculum wasn’t introduced until September 2022 It's also clear evidence of the DESC lumbering schools with the responsibility of writing and implementing the curriculum in this area without specific, detailed guidance. A cynic might think the DESC passed over this responsibility so that schools could shoulder the blame when some parents inevitably objected. DESC has form for this - see holidays in term-time, safeguarding, school uniform.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Hoops said: Interesting piece about gender ideology and young people. While I can understand the need to teach compassion and acceptance for trans people in schools, among some there are genuine worries about the unprecedented increase in people saying they are trans - is it a result of greater acceptance, or, in part, a social contagion, particularly among the vulnerable young, going through the physical and mental changes that 'growing up' entails? https://open.substack.com/pub/colinwright/p/gender-ideology-impacts-everyone?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email Is it simply less repressed? It may be that people have the language now to express how they feel internally. The article you linked focuses on detransition as a basis of its argument against gender ideologies. But, it’s worth noting that detransition is exceedingly rare. In the UK, of 3398 surveyed at a gender clinic, sixteen expressed regret and even fewer went on to detransition. For context, that’s 0.47% In the US survey of around 28,000 people, about 8% of people reported some form of detransition. But 62% of those were temporary. The temporary detransitions were linked to societal, familial or financial pressure. I know people who have had to temporarily detransition, or hold back their transition, to be able to keep a job, or to avoid a family upset. Only 5% of trans people who de transitioned, or 0.4% of trans people overall did so because they experienced regret. There is definitely an argument for studying detransition more. Those people deserve support too, and it may even help reduce the rate of detransition further But, that doesn’t mean the 99.6% of trans people who don’t regret their transition should be denied the right to. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 3/17/2023 at 7:48 AM, TheTeapot said: So a woman who thinks she wants to be a man seeks treatment they don't need to medically check? Can choose to transition based on feelings alone? Goes a bit beyond just feeling, dysphoria is hard to describe unless you experience it. I mean, do they do brain scans and neuron checks if someone has depression? Some conditions don’t have immediate visible signs and are taken on the experience of the person involved. I’m not saying being trans is a mental illness btw before anyone jumps on that, just pointing out that not all things are visible in the way other conditions are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snaefell Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 2 hours ago, John Wright said: Except that’s only 2.5 years ago, is a policy statement and the actual curriculum wasn’t introduced until September 2022 Well then, I'm thoroughly confused. A friend who teaches RSE in one of the other 4 schools says they are in the 3rd year of teaching the same content as QE2. Let's hope the inquiry reports soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 3/17/2023 at 7:30 AM, potiron said: Dont realy understand the pulling your clothes up to your knees part. Think thats just jibberish.. i dont think steriotyping priests,scout masters etc all as nonces is a very wise thing to do either .. yes ther maybe a few wrong uns amongst them , but they arent all bad . So thats a bit of a silly comparison realy . Its like saying let’s not trust police just because of 1 bad apple recently... so most of your question is just rubbish fella . None of the above is realy relevant to this situation...... However if all said people were also trying to teach kids about these things .. i.e child comes home and told me the priest/ scout master was teaching him about masturbation , anal etc.. then that would be a diffrent story .. 1 would asume a bit of grooming going on .. hopefuly that answers your You hit the nail on the head by saying there are bad people in all avenues of society. My point was, there are wayyyyyy more of those people I mentioned being prosecuted for child abuse than trans people and yet trans people are the ones being demonised. While most parents are happy to let their children go free, into the care of people who are way more likely to cause them harm. You are correct, it isn’t right to tar all of one group with the same brush, that logic falls apart the moment you apply it elsewhere as demonstrated above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 The very bemusing ( and disturbing ) thing is that the arguments, the bile, the hatred are all the same, and raised by the same people who levelled them against legalisation of gay sex, equalisation of the age of consent, and teaching of homosexuality relationship as a “pretend” family. They portray false victims, in this case the women who they say, in single sex spaces, will be attacked. They misportray the effects of puberty blockers. They use the same hysteria, diversion, exaggeration and down right lies, in support of their unscientific ideology and care not one jot for the damage they cause. I’ve lived through that. It was damaging to many younger and older gay men of my generation. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be a young trans person with all this going on. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ativa Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr Snaefell said: Well then, I'm thoroughly confused. A friend who teaches RSE in one of the other 4 schools says they are in the 3rd year of teaching the same content as QE2. Let's hope the inquiry reports soon. They will teach the same in all schools What has been “reported” is not even close to what is taught. All the people stirring up the outrage are in danger of looking very stupid when the truth comes out. Can anyone remind me what the issue is again? What is actually supposed to be going on in our schools that is worthy of so much outrage and debate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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