Sex education and religion

[Andy Onchan]

33 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Why?

Schools could be chock full of people with unusual sexual proclivities and no-one would be any the wiser. I know people who like to play dress-up with toy guns at the weekend and shoot each other but they're still fairly good at their actual jobs.

Only "fairly good" at their jobs?

[jackwhite]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Oh it was definitely blown out of all proportion of course. But absolutely nothing that has happened since, including todays Tynwald statement has been in any way reassuring. If anything it has made things worse, certainly in my opinion of the education department. Jack white thinks it brings out my prejudices, maybe it does, I've got a pretty strong prejudice against authority, got a pretty strong prejudice against the current vogue of 'doing this supposedly good thing because its good without thinking of all the potential negatives', got a pretty strong prejudice against propaganda aimed at developing minds. 

It's pretty hard to get accurate information about what goes on at school from an 11yr old, it is even harder to get it from the school itself. The whole thing has been piss poor from the DoE.

I don't deny your last paragraph there. 

Firstly, I apologise if I caused offence. It wasn't my intention, although I can be the the archetype brick through the window. 

I act understand where you're coming from. If I'm even more honest, I used to be equally as suspicious. There came a time in my life where I decided not to be that way. But it was a life changing event rather than a realisation that triggered that. Then to also paraphrase that, I've been caught out going the other way since by being too naive. On the flip side I find a lot more joy and prosperity not living that sort of life. 

One of the things I'd encourage all parents to do is think of their response in this case. What will they tell their kids if they ask? Why don't you want these people in their schools? Perhaps it's the system you don't trust rather than them. 

I'm not saying people can't have an opinion or decide what to do with their own kids. That said I do think people don't always firstly think what's best for the child and not what actually makes them comfortable. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

22 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Seems like it's more a you problem then.

I'd rather the kids were exposed to a cross section of people from society than had some of the people on this thread give them pre-conceived biases about others. 

I get why, especially if you've got a kid in that age group, why you'd be unsure as a parent.

School spends more time with your kids than you get to in many cases. They've got this whole life that you get a snippet of.

So, if there's something you struggle with getting your head around, of course you're going to be worried about your kid. You can't get inside their heads, no matter how hard you try.

But, you won't win people round by telling them they're the problem.

[jackwhite]

4 minutes ago, WTF said:

yes, it's like a fat doctor telling others to lose weight.

In what way? 

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Only "fairly good" at their jobs?

Most people are.

[Mysteron]

54 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Can you demonstrate that there are only two genders?

When archaeologists excavate the bodies of humans living now, I'm pretty sure they'll only be able to identify them as male or female.  Unless of course the corpse happens to be wearing a coloured wristband...

[AcousticallyChallenged]

31 minutes ago, potiron said:

Science and biology fella

Which science and which biology?

Same stuff that said the big fella in the sky made women out of a man's rib?

Gender is explicitly defined in the Oxford dictionary as:

Quote

The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones; the collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex. Also: a (male or female) group characterized in this way.

Note the rather than biological ones...

Plus, biology is messy.

Even your chromosomes don't always control if you're born with a willy.

[Roxanne]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Oh it was definitely blown out of all proportion of course. But absolutely nothing that has happened since, including todays Tynwald statement has been in any way reassuring. If anything it has made things worse, certainly in my opinion of the education department. Jack white thinks it brings out my prejudices, maybe it does, I've got a pretty strong prejudice against authority, got a pretty strong prejudice against the current vogue of 'doing this supposedly good thing because its good without thinking of all the potential negatives', got a pretty strong prejudice against propaganda aimed at developing minds. 

It's pretty hard to get accurate information about what goes on at school from an 11yr old, it is even harder to get it from the school itself. The whole thing has been piss poor from the DoE.

I’m not surprised you feel this way especially in this transitionary year. What I would say to you right now is that despite its difficulties, education is still a wonderful resource. As someone who has overseen the transition of many children I can tell you that after six weeks of high school not one child has wanted to go back to primary school. Your child is ready to move on and they need your support. Right now you’ve been bombarded by this, we all have, but it’s been more acute for you. Give it some time to settle. You know as well as anyone else that this will soon disappear into the ether and the vocal minority will be on to their next crusade. And yes, your kid will tell you nothing, or very little because high school is their first bite of freedom and it becomes their private world, but rest assured, if there was something really wrong then they will share it with you, because that’s how you’ve brought them up. Innit. It will be ok. 🤗

[HeliX]

Just now, Mysteron said:

When archaeologists excavate the bodies of humans living now, I'm pretty sure they'll only be able to identify them as male or female.  Unless of course the corpse happens to be wearing a coloured wristband...

If we ignore the many times they've been misidentified in this way, you can't figure out someone's gender from their bones. Their sex maybe, if you're lucky.

[Roxanne]

17 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

27 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

 

No one is shutting him down.

Jack, if someone publicly shows their vulnerability and someone says that it’s a ‘you problem then’, then that is going to shut them down. 

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, Roxanne said:

 And yes, your kid will tell you nothing, or very little because high school is their first bite of freedom and it becomes their private world, but rest assured, if there was something really wrong then they will share it with you, because that’s how you’ve brought them up. Innit. It will be ok. 🤗

Yes, this. He knows. I've told him everything gets weird for a few years now, he's got a lot to find out, and its exciting and often very silly and sometimes mighty daunting too.

I like being a parent really, but its not always easy. I can remember my mum being a bit irritated with my unwillingness to tell her about school, so now I get to know how that felt for her.

[Passing Time]

3 hours ago, Chie said:

Clown award of the day goes to..

A drag artist does not equal a drag queen.

Drag Artists do not equal pedophiles.

 

Cough**

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A drag queen is a person, usually male, who uses drag clothing and makeup to imitate and often exaggerate female gender signifiers and gender roles for entertainment purposes. Historically, drag queens have usually been gay men, and part of gay culture.

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

It still makes me uncomfortable that someone whose hobby is dressing up in drag is considered an appropriate adult to be giving talks to 11 year olds in school.

 

What is drag? Does ecclesiastical clothing qualify as drag.

Just because someone cross dresses, that isn’t drag, nor make them a drag Queen.

Just because someone performs in drag as a drag Queen does that make them a drag Queen full time, or just when they perform.

This whole episode reminds me of the only similar situation we had in school when I was 13. We ended up discussing the masons, what they did, ceremonial, secrecy.

One fellow pupil went home and told his dad, who, apparently, was high up in the local lodge. His dad worked with my dad. I got quizzed because the Masonic dad was making a fuss.

The story he had apparently told my dad bore no relationship to what I recalled happening. Masonic dad wanted to interview me, I, and my dad, refused. Then there were letters in the local papers, making even more extreme allegations. They complained to the head and the LEA and governors.

The deputy head interviewed every one.

It came up in history, someone asked what Masons were. There was a short explanation. No mock initiation ceremonies, knives, cuts, rolled up trouser legs or blindfolds or bared breasts. Although that was the complaint, apparently.

We pupils looked on perplexed at the adult exaggeration and bizarre behaviour of the complainers. Entitled groups, or groups with odd, non mainstream, beliefs seem to be threatened by everything.

I suspect non of the kids at QE2 will have been damaged. But freedom of teaching expression has been damaged, and parents like Teapot have had their confidence damaged.

Sad really.

[WTF]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

In what way? 

no credibility 

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

What is drag? Does ecclesiastical clothing qualify as drag.

Just because someone cross dresses, that isn’t drag, nor make them a drag Queen.

Just because someone performs in drag as a drag Queen does that make them a drag Queen full time, or just when they perform.

 

Well I don't think the church should be in school either.

What is someones motivation for dressing up and performing like that? A concern would be that it is very much a sex thing, someone who puts their sex life, their desire, right at the very front of their personality. I don't know if that is the case, I don't know any drag artists to ask. But if you make your personality all about sex then you probably shouldn't be going into school.