Annoymouse Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 19 hours ago, AOR said: what if I don't report an accident? Yes, he’ll pay the price for that one too, unfortunately that is all part of the fight or flight instinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteron Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 21 minutes ago, Gladys said: "fiercely protect"? Sorry, Derek, that is neither demonstrated in the culture or attitudes of the police, and that is a general observation not confined to the IOM. The police are tuned to be critical and dubious of information provided to them and the default is to be suspicious. That does not sit well with "fiercely protecting" the legal rights of those under investigation. Sure, they will, in the main, observe the procedural requirements, but to dress that up as "fiercely protecting" is over- egging that particular pudding. Not every arrested person wants an advocate while they're in police custody - however, it is their right to have one if they so wish, and that is explained to them by the custody officer upon their arrival into custody at a police station. The detained person can change their mind about wanting/not wanting an advocate at any time, which again is explained to them at the outset, and in any reviews of their detention. I should imagine in situations where a detainee does not want an advocate, then the role of protecting their rights etc while in police custody probably rests with the custody officer, but others on this forum may know differently. Anyway, as far as I can tell the rules governing police detention are laid out in the Police Powers and Procedures Act 1998 - a recommended read for insomniacs by the look of it - and ancillary Codes of Practice. I've read media reports where the defending advocates have looked for breaches in police procedures, so I guess that if these breaches are proven then it could result in the police case being thrown out. In more serious cases - but in reality every case - I can well imagine Facebook going into total meltdown if a case gets thrown out because the police failed to adhere to laid down procedures. Not to mention the waste of public money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 20 hours ago, hissingsid said: Why was it reported that people had been arrested and questioned when there was obviously not a crumb of evidence to suspect them except as was suggested a dubious tip off ? It sounds like showing how clever they are when really they did not have a factual case. If these people would have been people of importance I guess this would have been handled very differently. It was all too public probably because it was an emotive case but I feel for these people who have been treated badly I really do. Most likely because people like you would go on a week later asking why there had been no update and how useless the police are as in your experience of watching the Bill everything is wrapped up nicely in an hour. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 1 hour ago, thommo2010 said: Most likely because people like you would go on a week later asking why there had been no update and how useless the police are as in your experience of watching the Bill everything is wrapped up nicely in an hour. The only thing you lot wrap up in an hour is your feckin sandwiches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 21 hours ago, John Wright said: There will clearly be a record of their arrest, the interviews, and the bail and NFA. But it’s not public. It doesn’t form part of their previous convictions/criminal record. It was an arrestable offence so speculative dna samples will have been taken. Can’t remember how long that is kept for off top of my head. When you travel to the US (and possibly other countries too) there is a box you have to fill out on the application 'have you ever been arrested' . Not 'convicted', no time limit mentioned. Now they'll have to tick the 'yes' box forever, and there's a good chance they'll not be allowed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Bombay Bad Boy said: When you travel to the US (and possibly other countries too) there is a box you have to fill out on the application 'have you ever been arrested' . Not 'convicted', no time limit mentioned. Now they'll have to tick the 'yes' box forever, and there's a good chance they'll not be allowed in. a win for the americans then. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 People like me would prefer more care was taken before innocent people suffered all kinds of abuse. People like me don’t appreciate rushed actions but prefer everyone involved gets treated fairly and the correct result. Crowing has no place in the justice system there are real human beings involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Bombay Bad Boy said: When you travel to the US (and possibly other countries too) there is a box you have to fill out on the application 'have you ever been arrested' . Not 'convicted', no time limit mentioned. Now they'll have to tick the 'yes' box forever, and there's a good chance they'll not be allowed in. I think the ticket price would stop that being a real problem long term TBH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 51 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: I think the ticket price would stop that being a real problem long term TBH dunno, there must be quite a few quid in some illicit activities or they wouldn't be worth the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 8 hours ago, Gladys said: "fiercely protect"? Sorry, Derek, that is neither demonstrated in the culture or attitudes of the police, and that is a general observation not confined to the IOM. The police are tuned to be critical and dubious of information provided to them and the default is to be suspicious. That does not sit well with "fiercely protecting" the legal rights of those under investigation. Sure, they will, in the main, observe the procedural requirements, but to dress that up as "fiercely protecting" is over- egging that particular pudding. You do get the point that the ‘fiercely defending’ bit is done by advocates? The police have no option other than to provide a lawyer if one is requested, save for some obscure and very rare reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: You do get the point that the ‘fiercely defending’ bit is done by advocates? The police have no option other than to provide a lawyer if one is requested, save for some obscure and very rare reasons. It was not clear, you referred to a raft of investigative tools whilst fiercely defending the rights of the suspect with the likes of JW at their side and the inference I drew was the one I posted. Clarity is all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 1 hour ago, hissingsid said: People like me would prefer more care was taken before innocent people suffered all kinds of abuse. People like me don’t appreciate rushed actions but prefer everyone involved gets treated fairly and the correct result. Crowing has no place in the justice system there are real human beings involved. You’ve never run a serious investigation, I take it? As a senior investigating officer, you are writing constantly, running decisions through the national decision model, developing hypotheses and strategy. All this can be picked through by the defence by scrutiny of your disclosable policy book. Part of your duty is to develop a media strategy. An incident of this sort is a matter of public interest, so keeping them up to date with developments, as well as making appeals for information. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Gladys said: It was not clear, you referred to a raft of investigative tools whilst fiercely defending the rights of the suspect with the likes of JW at their side and the inference I drew was the one I posted. Clarity is all. My apologies for not directing you to the precise section of the Police Powers and Procedures Act and the associated codes of practice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: My apologies for not directing you to the precise section of the Police Powers and Procedures Act and the associated codes of practice No, it would have been clearer if you had said that there were statutory procedures in place to protect suspects and this includes the right to legal representation, who would fiercely defend their client's rights. The implication of how you wrote the post was that the police and their procedures fiercely defended suspects rights. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Gladys said: No, it would have been clearer if you had said that there were statutory procedures in place to protect suspects and this includes the right to legal representation, who would fiercely defend their client's rights. The implication of how you wrote the post was that the police and their procedures fiercely defended suspects rights. To be fair Gladys, he was too busy sitting upright on that high horse… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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