Barlow Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Banker said: Fact is most people on the island don’t care what happens to the horse trams so doubt there’s a massive amount of public support to spend money to continue them. Well in over 50 years I have never known anyone against the horse trams. Some ambivalent maybe but none against. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 6 hours ago, Barlow said: Well in over 50 years I have never known anyone against the horse trams. Some ambivalent maybe but none against. the animal rights bods were against them at one point so you haven't been paying attention. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 8 hours ago, Barlow said: Well in over 50 years I have never known anyone against the horse trams. Some ambivalent maybe but none against. I’m not against the horse trams per se. I am against the waste of money in the entire vintage transport system here. I’m certainly against the very expensive nationalisation, relaying the track and ongoing operational losses. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 12 hours ago, Barlow said: Well in over 50 years I have never known anyone against the horse trams. Some ambivalent maybe but none against. You obviously don’t get out much or listen to people!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 12 hours ago, Barlow said: Well in over 50 years I have never known anyone against the horse trams. Some ambivalent maybe but none against. I'd put myself in the ambivalent camp prior to the Prom re-development. Post re-development considering the state of the the finished product and extra costs, I'm 100% against the bloody things. I think you'd find most people would now be of a similar opinion. If they're not, then you should let them know how much Longworth's Gee-gee trainset has cost and see if they re-evaluate. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 14 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said: The only realistic thing is this government are still squandering it and showing no signs of belt tightening. Their only solution is growth i.e. more people = more taxes. However, they are willfully blind to the systems already creaking under the current burden which will not magically improve to accomodate the extra people when they can't even afford to maintain them now. And when every other nation around us is struggling with the same demographic issues and uncontrolled immigration doesn't seem to have worked either, where exactly are these 'new people' supposed to come from? They'll burn through the reserves with promises that some future utopian government will pay it back. So when the gravy train hits the buffers then they'll be long retired 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: Post re-development considering the state of the the finished product and extra costs, I'm 100% against the bloody things If you are thinking that the cost of the rail installation was due to the requirements of the horse trams, note that the main costs (bomb-proof concrete base, heavy-duty rails) were not because of the horse trams, it was so that battery-powered trams could run on them. The requirements for the horse tram rails were presumably as before - just stick lightweight rails into the tarmac. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 5 hours ago, John Wright said: I’m not against the horse trams per se. I am against the waste of money in the entire vintage transport system here. I’m certainly against the very expensive nationalisation, relaying the track and ongoing operational losses. Agreed but it really is time for the lawmakers to debate moving these systems over to the third sector. It's the only way they'll survive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 8 hours ago, WTF said: the animal rights bods were against them at one point so you haven't been paying attention. One of my TT visitors about 10 years ago was a horsie woman all her life. She knew her stuff and she knew how to read the emotions of horses as well as anybody can, I am sure. Stood outside Bushy's tent and I asked her about the horse trams the horses in particular. I was surprised that she hadn't really taken an awful lot of notice. She studied them for a while, stopping starting, getting up to speed, their interaction with the drivers and the public. "Those are happy horses, it's a simple as that" I don't take much notice of these virtue signallers, although the circus thing over here, when Marje Joughin was in full flight had some clear points to make. So, I do not mean to be unpleasant, but regarding the animal rights and horse trams - bollocks to them (my considered opinion) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 The horse trams are loved by many and should go to the Jubilee clock as intended. How the DOI got away with spending the money that was voted by Tynwald to this end on subsidising a shortfall on the main project is scandalous and yet not a word has been said about it. The Steam Railway, Electric Railway, Wild Life Park are the main tourist attractions together with the horse trams for holiday makers with children if they need to be subsidised so be it. Building a posh shed for an awld boat that may or not have been used in the smuggling trade and will need money for wages and upkeep and will attract few tourists is not a viable attraction. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 58 minutes ago, Fred the shred said: The horse trams are loved by many and should go to the Jubilee clock as intended. How the DOI got away with spending the money that was voted by Tynwald to this end on subsidising a shortfall on the main project is scandalous and yet not a word has been said about it. The Steam Railway, Electric Railway, Wild Life Park are the main tourist attractions together with the horse trams for holiday makers with children if they need to be subsidised so be it. Building a posh shed for an awld boat that may or not have been used in the smuggling trade and will need money for wages and upkeep and will attract few tourists is not a viable attraction. The amount of money that has been spent on the horse trams in one form or another in recent years, has to be by now approaching a large proportion of this years tax rise. Ask people would they want taxes raised to support this now superfluous venture - and most would tell you where to stick it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 8 hours ago, John Wright said: I’m not against the horse trams per se. I am against the waste of money in the entire vintage transport system here. I’m certainly against the very expensive nationalisation, relaying the track and ongoing operational losses. But is it a waste of money? The Victorian transport system is at the heart of the Isle of Man identity. My visitors make a point of using the train/tram system every time they visit. It's a difficult one to balance but if people were asked for example, would you prefer x amount more doctors plus a shiny new hospital wing or would you prefer the horse tram/steam train. The real life equation and choice is never that simple. Edited June 4 by Barlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 14 minutes ago, Barlow said: But is it a waste of money? I've said it before. When the prom was started they should have moved them to Ramsey prom, to join up with and enhance the coming pier experience. If Ramsey would have taken them. They are uneconomic and a pain in the arse for Douglas Prom - and could have been run much more cheaply out of town. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub3 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 3 hours ago, Fred the shred said: The horse trams are loved by many and should go to the Jubilee clock as intended. How the DOI got away with spending the money that was voted by Tynwald to this end on subsidising a shortfall on the main project is scandalous and yet not a word has been said about it. The Steam Railway, Electric Railway, Wild Life Park are the main tourist attractions together with the horse trams for holiday makers with children if they need to be subsidised so be it. Building a posh shed for an awld boat that may or not have been used in the smuggling trade and will need money for wages and upkeep and will attract few tourists is not a viable attraction. If that awld boat has been used for smuggling it should be destroyed as it was used for criminality as smuggling was a crime back in the day. Get the FSA on the case soon have her burnt😁 so save a few quid on a shed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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