slinkydevil Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 29 minutes ago, alpha-acid said: You think he could buy the Trafalgar after the Hooded Ram disaster I know how, you're wrong. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 11 hours ago, alpha-acid said: You can not make beer from bread, It would be illegal to sell it on the Isle of Man, you would even have to get a new law passed to use it as well What if its not called beer ? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, mad_manx said: What if its not called beer ? 🤔 What would you call it then, Gruel? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha-acid Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, mad_manx said: What if its not called beer ? 🤔 Then that's fine as long as Alcohol tax is paid, but to do that it has to be beer , wine or spirit and I doubt it fits any of these categories Edited October 28, 2022 by alpha-acid spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 11 hours ago, alpha-acid said: You think he could buy the Trafalgar after the Hooded Ram disaster You're not as knowledgeable as you think you are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwhite Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 15 hours ago, alpha-acid said: You can not make beer from bread, It would be illegal to sell it on the Isle of Man, you would even have to get a new law passed to use it as well There are companies who make beer from waste bread. Crumbs Brewing the obvious one. Why would it be illegal to sell on the Isle of Man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, jackwhite said: There are companies who make beer from waste bread. Crumbs Brewing the obvious one. Why would it be illegal to sell on the Isle of Man? Brewers Act 1874. You could sell it if it’s brewed off Island. But you can’t brew it here. https://legislation.gov.im/cms/images/LEGISLATION/PRINCIPAL/1874/1874-0002/BrewersAct1874_1.pdf#page6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, jackwhite said: There are companies who make beer from waste bread. Crumbs Brewing the obvious one. Why would it be illegal to sell on the Isle of Man? Ingredients set in law for beer brewed locally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: Brewers Act 1874. You could sell it if it’s brewed off Island. But you can’t brew it here. https://legislation.gov.im/cms/images/LEGISLATION/PRINCIPAL/1874/1874-0002/BrewersAct1874_1.pdf#page6 Hooded Ram did and others - I think that act is up for interpretation and nothing has been done to enforce. Locally produced Oyster Stout wouldn't be the same without the Oysters and I know for a fact Noa Bread has been added to some local beers. "In addition to more hops, Hooded Ram also strays from the island’s norm with unique ingredients and styles. As stated earlier, the Manx Brewing Purity Act is still in effect — that said, Hooded Ram is clearly pushing the limits with beers that include ingredient additions of chai, mint, chocolate, and other non-traditional brewing ingredients. When asked about the discrepancy related to the law, Hooded Ram’s Founder and recipe designer Rob Storey said it’s a gray area and the law is open to interpretation. “It’s a good question and one I have been seeking an answer to as no one is able to tell me what the repercussions are for not complying, but almost anything can now be added, and I believe so long as they are not “substituting” one of the four core ingredients they are “additions.” https://byo.com/article/isle-of-man/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Flavourings are OK. And the government can issue a derogation. But here they seem to be looking at using the bread as the carbohydrate base, rather than grain. The concentrate for oyster stout is added after brewing ( I think ) as was the caramel that coloured Castletown mild. By that stage it’s been brewed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwhite Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Maybe they're not intending to sell on island or have some form of exemption? The quote from Rob Storey above and other things I've been told seem to indicate that there have been a number of beers which wouldn't be considered 'compliant'. Law itself is also prehistoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, John Wright said: Flavourings are OK. And the government can issue a derogation. But here they seem to be looking at using the bread as the carbohydrate base, rather than grain. The concentrate for oyster stout is added after brewing ( I think ) as was the caramel that coloured Castletown mild. By that stage it’s been brewed. I presume that if Noa were setting up, it would be an addition as long as they kept the core ingredients within the Act. There was an amendment in 1999 that allowed Wheat based beers, but I think this would still be a Malted beer with the addition of bread. This is Noa bread used during the brewing process, as an additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, slinkydevil said: I presume that if Noa were setting up, it would be an addition as long as they kept the core ingredients within the Act. There was an amendment in 1999 that allowed Wheat based beers, but I think this would still be a Malted beer with the addition of bread. This is Noa bread used during the brewing process, as an additive. The link I posted above is the 1874 Act with the 1998 amendments. Neither wheat, Barley, Oats are specified. It’s “Malt” - germinated grain/cereal. The definition of Malt was not changed in 1998. I’ve not checked if there are any derogation orders on the books. Things like Oyster Stouts used to have shucked oysters in the brew. Oyster shells ( whole or ground ) were often added to fine and clear the brew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, slinkydevil said: I presume that if Noa were setting up, it would be an addition as long as they kept the core ingredients within the Act. There was an amendment in 1999 that allowed Wheat based beers, but I think this would still be a Malted beer with the addition of bread. This is Noa bread used during the brewing process, as an additive. 56 minutes ago, slinkydevil said: Hooded Ram did and others - I think that act is up for interpretation and nothing has been done to enforce. Locally produced Oyster Stout wouldn't be the same without the Oysters and I know for a fact Noa Bread has been added to some local beers. "In addition to more hops, Hooded Ram also strays from the island’s norm with unique ingredients and styles. As stated earlier, the Manx Brewing Purity Act is still in effect — that said, Hooded Ram is clearly pushing the limits with beers that include ingredient additions of chai, mint, chocolate, and other non-traditional brewing ingredients. When asked about the discrepancy related to the law, Hooded Ram’s Founder and recipe designer Rob Storey said it’s a gray area and the law is open to interpretation. “It’s a good question and one I have been seeking an answer to as no one is able to tell me what the repercussions are for not complying, but almost anything can now be added, and I believe so long as they are not “substituting” one of the four core ingredients they are “additions.” https://byo.com/article/isle-of-man/ There appear to be 4 derogation exemptions - none include bread. They do include, specifically the things Rob Storey refers to. Looks as if there won’t be an issue getting permission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha-acid Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, John Wright said: There appear to be 4 derogation exemptions - none include bread. They do include, specifically the things Rob Storey refers to. Looks as if there won’t be an issue getting permission. It was me that instigated those changes when I was Brewing at Okells 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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