Firm closing

[John Wright]

3 hours ago, Gladys said:

Isn't there a bit of law that says legal tender cannot be refused in settlement of a debt?  Probably long changed by subsequent legislation, but there is also something in the back of my mind about buses not having to give you change if you can't give the correct amount. 

Probably both situations are partly true and partly myth. 

Yes. In the UK the currency legislation says what is legal tender and for how much. Its only BofE notes( to any amount )  and coins ( subject to limits). Scots and Northern Irish Notes are not legal tender in the UK, not even in their respective jurisdictions. IoM its IOM and BofE and Manx and UK coins ( both without limit )

The bus one is a myth

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And you can write “cheques” on eggs and the side of a cow apparently. Or that’s what I remember being told during my A level Law studies. Probably not totally correct either.

You can write a cheque on anything. A cheque is just a form of a bill of exchange

2 hours ago, Harry Lamb said:

I think 'in settlement for a debt' is key here, as opposed to making a purchase or similar transaction where no contract has been entered into?

That's the key. Its not a debt until a contract has been formed

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If you go to the pub and ask for a pint. Then you pay before it's handed over you have neither a debt nor a contract. 

Not true. The bottles and beer engines are an invitation to treat, you offer to buy and the landlord accepts, at that stage you have a verbal contract. Its executory, the land lord has to hand over the beer and you have to pay.

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Ha Ha. AFAIK There is no contract. Neither written or deemed. Unless you drink the drink then refuse to pay. 

Maybe if you had a tab perhaps. 

Whatever, I am sure that seller can insist on whatever payment type he wants. 

There is a contract. You just don't realise it. Tabs aren't allowed and are unenforceable. The seller can, in invitation to treat circumstances decide in advance to only contract for cash or card or cheque. He puts a notice up at the till saying cash only, card only, etc. So the is never a contract and never a debt and that avoids the Currency Act 

1 hour ago, CrazyDave said:

There is absolutely no legal requirement for a business to accept cash or legal tender under any circumstances.

Its entirely up to a business how they accept payment.  It could be bitcoin only if they want and as a customer there is nothing you could do other than refuse to shop there.

There is if a contract has been formed and the seller hasn't specified, before contract, cash, or card, only

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

From the mists of my memory, there is a contract where there is offer, acceptance and consideration.   So, you ask for a pint (offer), pay (consideration) and if the money is taken by the barman there is acceptance and he now has to fulfill his side of the bargain. Of course, an offer can be withdrawn before acceptance, and the barman is not bound to accept your money, so no contract. 

 

20 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And then there is the” invitation to treat” business.

As in Boots v Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain, if I remember correctly. Or the other way round.

When you take an item up to the till you are making an offer to purchase which the retailer accepts by taking your money.

Something like that anyway.

Displaying an item is not an offer to sell, its an invitation to treat. You pickup the item and take to the till and you make an offer to buy. If there is a notice saying cash only, card only, cheque only at the entrance and/or at the till then the invitation to treat is on those terms and your offer to pay in an unaccepted form doesn't change things and create a contract and a debt under the Currency Act unless the seller says they will accept another form of payment. There is no consensus. No contract. 

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Yes, I had that in mind.  It was the Pharmaceutical Soc suing Boots for selling self service medicines rather than through a dispensing staff member, they lost as the contract was made at the till.  The display of goods with prices etc was an invitation to treat or make an offer which could be refused at the till.   There was another case about a knife being on display, can't remember that one in detail, but it was the same point.  

Yes

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Fisher v Bell I believe

Yes. Prohibited items, or sale offers on display when they label price is wrong.

 

The Corbyn thing is wrong, he's just another freeman type. There are interesting issues with self serve tills 

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Yes. In the UK the currency legislation says what is legal tender and for how much. Its only BofE notes( to any amount )  and coins ( subject to limits). Scots and Northern Irish Notes are not legal tender in the UK, not even in their respective jurisdictions. IoM its IOM and BofE and Manx and UK coins ( both without limit )

The bus one is a myth

You can write a cheque on anything. A cheque is just a form of a bill of exchange

That's the key. Its not a debt until a contract has been formed

Not true. The bottles and beer engines are an invitation to treat, you offer to buy and the landlord accepts, at that stage you have a verbal contract. Its executory, the land lord has to hand over the beer and you have to pay.

There is a contract. You just don't realise it. Tabs aren't allowed and are unenforceable. The seller can, in invitation to treat circumstances decide in advance to only contract for cash or card or cheque. He puts a notice up at the till saying cash only, card only, etc. So the is never a contract and never a debt and that avoids the Currency Act 

There is if a contract has been formed and the seller hasn't specified, before contract, cash, or card, only

 

Displaying an item is not an offer to sell, its an invitation to treat. You pickup the item and take to the till and you make an offer to buy. If there is a notice saying cash only, card only, cheque only at the entrance and/or at the till then the invitation to treat is on those terms and your offer to pay in an unaccepted form doesn't change things and create a contract and a debt under the Currency Act unless the seller says they will accept another form of payment. There is no consensus. No contract. 

Yes

Yes. Prohibited items, or sale offers on display when they label price is wrong.

 

The Corbyn thing is wrong, he's just another freeman type. There are interesting issues with self serve tills 

Seems we were all wrong. Amazing what we can discuss on a quiet news day🙂

[Gladys]

@John Wright on the legal.tender point, I was told many years ago that in the UK Manx currency was 'acceptable tender', ie it could be accepted but didn’t have to be. 

Not sure about that, but the person who told me also announced in the office with great certainty and authority that the husband of someone was now offering private vasectomies having retired.  After he left, we looked at each other and mouthed 'wasn't he an engineer?'

 

[John Wright]

4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

@John Wright on the legal.tender point, I was told many years ago that in the UK Manx currency was 'acceptable tender', ie it could be accepted but didn’t have to be. 

Not sure about that, but the person who told me also announced in the office with great certainty and authority that the husband of someone was now offering private vasectomies having retired.  After he left, we looked at each other and mouthed 'wasn't he an engineer?'

 

No. They are wrong. That’s the position for Scots and Northern Irish ( and Manx, Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar notes ) in the UK.

Our Currency Act says

 

[CrazyDave]

Bradda Glen now functions only.  No restaurant or walk in drinks.

Ramsey Park Hotel for lunch today.  Card only, the tiling issue dealt with by a 10 percent service charge unless you specifically ask for it to be removed

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Bradda Glen now functions only.  No restaurant or walk in drinks.

Ramsey Park Hotel for lunch today.  Card only, the tiling issue dealt with by a 10 percent service charge unless you specifically ask for it to be removed

Were the tiles that bad? 

[Gladys]

18 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No. They are wrong. That’s the position for Scots and Northern Irish ( and Manx, Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar notes ) in the UK.

Our Currency Act says

 

He was talking about the status of Manx currency in the UK, so he was right?

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

He was talking about the status of Manx currency in the UK, so he was right?

Sorry, misread. It’s not even acceptable.it’s entirely at the discretion of the seller, as are Scots, etc, notes

[La Colombe]

12 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Were the tiles that bad? 

They were after he pissed all over them. 

[Gladys]

Just now, John Wright said:

Sorry, misread. It’s not even acceptable.it’s entirely at the discretion of the seller, as are Scots, etc, notes

Which is what he meant, ie it could be accepted but didn't have to.  He was still wrong about the retiree wanting to turn his hand to vasectomies now he had some time, though! 

[mad_manx]

Card only also reduces the risk of staff nicking the cash. 

[A fool and his money.....]

4 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

Card only also reduces the risk of staff nicking the cash. 

Or receiving the tips.

[CrazyDave]

5 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Or receiving the tips.

It’s very easy to tip by card. 
 

Restaurants nearly always have the option when you use the card machine, and in a bar you just ask if they want a drink for the end of their shift.

Its not difficult.  In fact it’s easier than giving cash that can go missing as their system are normally setup to recognise both the amount and who the server is.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, CrazyDave said:

Bradda Glen now functions only.  No restaurant or walk in drinks.

Ramsey Park Hotel for lunch today.  Card only, the tiling issue dealt with by a 10 percent service charge unless you specifically ask for it to be removed

How was your lunch? Been there a few times and always not so good. We go back in the hope it may be better but it never is.

The madness thing, doing the same thing many time  and always expecting the result to be different.

[WTF]

1 hour ago, CrazyDave said:

It’s very easy to tip by card. 
 

Restaurants nearly always have the option when you use the card machine, and in a bar you just ask if they want a drink for the end of their shift.

Its not difficult.  In fact it’s easier than giving cash that can go missing as their system are normally setup to recognise both the amount and who the server is.

yes, but that cash goes into the business account directly and not some jar on the counter , so the 'owner' may not give out all the tips taken,  if i pay by card in a restaurant i always tip in cash.