Firm closing

[Expat.]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:08 PM, Barlow said:

Yes, yes and yes again, you can walk these places and see none at all. But I travel these routes often and 9 times out of 10 a beggar/s are there.

OK, you win. I've asked them and they both said they thought there was a problem with vagrancy and begging in Huddersfield and Leeds, as in it exists at all and they have seen it, although both think it is much less prevalent than it used to be. Which is odd considering the state the country is in. Neither thought that either Leeds or Huddersfield is any worse than anywhere else.

[WTF]

6 hours ago, Happier diner said:

He was total nob. Dead now. 

did he stay in the sun too long.

[Kopek]

Surely the beggar problem is pretty country wide? Some will be chancers, some destitute and some psychiatrically unable to cope with Life???

Nothing to make light of?

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:08 PM, Barlow said:

Incidentally, I find Leeds and Huddersfield both wonderful places and will be sad when our contract ends.

Leeds and Huddersfield are both great places. I went to both in the late 1980s. Now they are very much different to the impoverished dismal places they were then. 

[Gladys]

14 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Surely the beggar problem is pretty country wide? Some will be chancers, some destitute and some psychiatrically unable to cope with Life???

Nothing to make light of?

Quite.  Also, hard to make a diagnosis of the cause/remedy when encountering someone on the street begging. 

[Kopek]

Lack of cash in pocket?

[quilp]

15 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Lack of cash in pocket?

That's the obvious one but how many on the street are now 'professional' and organised? Their presence denies others genuinely in need...

[Kopek]

Do they have card readers?

[Happier diner]

11 hours ago, Expat. said:

OK, you win. I've asked them and they both said they thought there was a problem with vagrancy and begging in Huddersfield and Leeds, as in it exists at all and they have seen it, although both think it is much less prevalent than it used to be. Which is odd considering the state the country is in. Neither thought that either Leeds or Huddersfield is any worse than anywhere else.

Leeds and Huddersfield are no worse than any other big town or city. Usual druggie/alcoholics in shop doorways. But not excessive. I didn't see signs of the so called 'professional' beggars that becoming a thing in the UK and maybe here 

[Barlow]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Leeds and Huddersfield are no worse than any other big town or city. 

Which was kind of my original point. Although I suggested, in obvious exaggeration to illustrate my point, that every corner in every UK town/city had a beggar. Two of the towns/cities we are working in just now were my own first hand examples. Especially Leeds btw, which is a big and thriving city.

Of course, if one lives in suburbia and only pops into town for a quick dash into John Lewis or Marks & Spencer, there is a very good chance that beggars will not be seen.

Is there a worthwhile point to this deviation from the topic in relation to the Isle of Man?

Like graffiti, begging has become accepted and part of life in UK. They are both entirely needless - the welfare state might not be 100% but it certainly isn't broken.

Isle of Man is small and capable enough to nip both in the bud.

[John Wright]

I travel a lot. I’ve spent a lot of time in Liverpool over the last 6 years, Manchester as well. London more recently. Plus Leeds, Newcastle, Lancaster, Holyhead, Dublin, Belfast. Barcelona, Sofia, Paris, Bilbao.

Begging/street sleeping/gangs begging seem to come and go in cycles related to the initiatives to clear the streets, availability of night shelters, etc.

It’s also very location dependent. Woolwich DLR area currently has lots. 250 metres away at Woolwich Arsenal Eliz line there are none.

Three weeks ago there were none on the streets in Soho, but several in Soho Park.

Liverpool and Manchester they seem to hang around ATM. And Manchester Piccadilly Gardens it’s people drugged out of their minds.  In the wheelchair I find that intimidating. I often stay at the Novotel or Premier Inn on Hanover Street in Liverpool. There’s a Tesco and a Home Bargains with a Q Park above. The pedestrian entry is through a door you have to use your parking ticket to swipe, next to an ATM. Not nice.

Liverpool One doesn’t have any, private security of course, but St John’s to Church Street and Dale Street are bad.

Dublin and Belfast were free on my last two visits. Newcastle was bad. Leeds, four visits in 2 years, pretty good, nothing like it used to be. Holyhead, never seen so many and in such a run down centre.

Barcelona of course doesn’t have beggars, it has groups of professional pickpockets, working in 3’s or 4’s anywhere tourists are. Jostle, distract etc.

Sofia, no beggars, but lots of opportunist bag snatchers.

[Zarley]

The last two times I was in Liverpool, there were quite a few in Bold St. They didn't used to hang around there much until the whole street was recently pedestrianised.

Most of the restaurants and cafes - of which there are many more now - have outdoor seating and that seems to be the draw. They don't bother seated patrons, but they do hover around the fringes.

My favourite independent bookshop is in Bold St. so I've been going there for years. The second hand book section in the Bold St. Oxfam is good as well. 

Ranelagh St. between the Adelphi and Bold St. usually has a fair few too, and the ATMs outside Lloyd's on the corner usually have at least one. 

Wonder what they did with the huge metal horse sculpture that used to sit on that same corner outside Lloyd's? I miss it.

[Expat.]

10 hours ago, Barlow said:

Is there a worthwhile point to this deviation from the topic in relation to the Isle of Man?

None, other than you started it with what you now say was an exaggeration to illustrate a point. I'll assume that the Isle of Man, being the unrivalled paradise that it is, is free of homelessness, vagrancy and begging.

 

10 hours ago, Barlow said:

Like graffiti, begging has become accepted and part of life in UK. They are both entirely needless - the welfare state might not be 100% but it certainly isn't broken.

See, there you go again. Begging is not an accepted part of life in the UK. The research points to 90% of people who do it are sick, almost always mentally ill. 80% have addiction issues related to their mental illness as in they are self medicating. They don't engage with social services. Almost all of them are connected to the area they beg in. The majority are not rough sleepers although they aren't going back to a warm well furnished home. The UK Government, being what it is, wants them arrested. Third sector charities want to draw them off the street but it's a long complicated business with poor outcomes. 

Lets not start on graffiti. So far as I know some bloke called Banksy does most of it, and he hasn't done any on my street...

[Ringy Rose]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:43 PM, Expat. said:

Maybe these beggars are everywhere in the North and I just don't notice them or maybe you've got some highly tuned beggar detection sense I lack. However, I just don't think they are there.

I’m from Bradford. I think you’re just not noticing them.

Much of Leeds city centre is now dominated by Trinity Leeds and you don’t see them in there are security move them on quickly. Likewise immediately around the station, which is also private land. But there are plenty of beggars, you’ll see loads of them under the cash machines on Albion Street and on Vicar Lane. You’ll see a few in the studenty areas around Hyde Park/Woodhouse Lane- though not outside of term time. You certainly don’t see them in leafy and expensive Horsforth. Leeds isn’t as bad as Manchester, though.

Huddersfield is pretty much as bad as Bradford for having a town centre full of druggies and general human detritus. The area around the bus station is absolutely horrible. Bradford is where skagheads go to die. 

[Ringy Rose]

22 hours ago, Expat. said:

The UK Government, being what it is, wants them arrested. Third sector charities want to draw them off the street but it's a long complicated business with poor outcomes. 

The fundamental problem is that begging is more lucrative than other more honest and productive forms of employment. I’ve spent most of my career working in the third sector and this is a fundamental problem, as the incentives all push people towards begging and related crime.

As you note few are rough sleepers but plenty are living in hostels, etc, with related issues.

I don’t ever give to beggars. It’s not because of a pearl-clutching belief that they’ll waste it on drugs or booze- they will, but then I spend my spare money on Bushy’s so I can’t comment. It’s simply that giving to beggars just encourages more beggars. If people didn’t give then it wouldn’t be lucrative, and that would help everyone.