Bus Vannin in Crisis

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, WTF said:

the problem is tours costx X times more than taxpayer subsidised buses, the cruise ships go for cheap as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Nellie said:

I have cruised a lot, and shore excursions are usually organised by the cruise line's local shipping agent, or a local travel agent. They will hire in the number of vehicles/seats that they need, based on ticket sales, and they can work with whoever they want to. Not 100% sure that is how it works here, but it would be unusual for anything else to happen.

We're also assuming that Tours feel hard done by, or want more of this work, but the reality may well be that buying/leasing several more coaches, hiring more drivers, and finding somewhere to keep them, for an occasional day's work, simply isn't viable, or doesn't fit their business model. 

I'm not defending some of the dubious, and sharp, practices which BV have indulged in, on Longworth's watch, but the whole situation is probably a bit more complex than it first appears.

 

26 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

When on these cruise excursions do you normally travel by bus? short of an open top bus doing a city tour. I just can’t see the savings of using a bus over a coach being passed onto the passengers.

You do raise a valid point though, someone needs to approach Tours and ask for their opinion.

 

I've long questioned the economics of the current 'cruise business' on the Isle of Man. In real terms pounds and pence, what is the actual benefit to the Isle of Man? 

They come in a we bus them around on loss-making buses to visit loss-making tourist sites (MNH) or travel on loss-making trains and trams. 

There are a couple of one-man-band tour guides/blue badge tour guides (like this fella interviewed by Paul Moulton) but they're not exactly vast empires producing millions in tax take. 

It all seems like one big job creation scheme at the tax payers' expense. The only genuine income seems to be a few hundred quid in harbour fees for the ship. 

[Boris Johnson]

2 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

 

 

 

I've long questioned the economics of the current 'cruise business' on the Isle of Man. In real terms pounds and pence, what is the actual benefit to the Isle of Man? 

They come in a we bus them around on loss-making buses to visit loss-making tourist sites (MNH) or travel on loss-making trains and trams. 

There are a couple of one-man-band tour guides/blue badge tour guides (like this fella interviewed by Paul Moulton) but they're not exactly vast empires producing millions in tax take. 

It all seems like one big job creation scheme at the tax payers' expense. The only genuine income seems to be a few hundred quid in harbour fees for the ship. 

Saw a piece on TV last week about Venice and cruise ships. They are now charging a 10 euro, I think, fee to all tourists as they say lots don't even buy a coffee when on land.

And we are chasing this?

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, Boris Johnson said:

Saw a piece on TV last week about Venice and cruise ships. They are now charging a 10 euro, I think, fee to all tourists as they say lots don't even buy a coffee when on land.

And we are chasing this?

It's a fair point. In a city like Venice many will only go ashore to get a few photos, maybe buy some tourist tat. 

I'm not sure about here as we're nothing like Venice and have none of the attractions. Potentially a good argument to ramp up harbour fees for passenger vessels above a certain size. 

[offshoremanxman]

12 hours ago, 0bserver said:

We ended up here as Tours shrunk their fleet when Bus Vannin started scalping the lucrative work like swimming contracts and cruise work. 

I believe the company was running around 50 vehicles 30 years ago. It looks like the real downsizing happened after Longworth arrived in these shores. Coincidental? 

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, offshoremanxman said:

I believe the company was running around 50 vehicles 30 years ago. It looks like the real downsizing happened after Longworth arrived in these shores. Coincidental? 

I remember Tours in the 90's being on Summerhill they had a sizeable depot and various vehicles parked around the island. Then they became Pro-Tours with off-island owners, then there was a management buyout a few years back and they became Tours again. 

I'm almost certain of the decline being due to Bus Vannin tactics during the Longworth-era. I'm not even sure the work was being put out to tender by DfE, and as has been covered here several times over BV don't account for vehicle depreciation or a whole host of other costs. 

 

 

[offshoremanxman]

16 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

I remember Tours in the 90's being on Summerhill they had a sizeable depot and various vehicles parked around the island. Then they became Pro-Tours with off-island owners, then there was a management buyout a few years back and they became Tours again. 

I'm almost certain of the decline being due to Bus Vannin tactics during the Longworth-era. I'm not even sure the work was being put out to tender by DfE, and as has been covered here several times over BV don't account for vehicle depreciation or a whole host of other costs. 

To be fair we’ve had a substantial decline in our tourist industry since the 1990s which has probably impacted as well but nobody is going to invest into and scale up their business when government is sitting there actively prepared to do the same work for almost nothing. That’s likely why we’re in this mess as you’d have to be a fool to invest your own money to improve capacity with that sort of threat constantly in the background. 

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

everyone moans about the bus service losing money, but when they do some commercial activity to pull in extra funds - everyone moans

Welcome to Manx Forums, you must be new here...

[Nellie]

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

When on these cruise excursions do you normally travel by bus? short of an open top bus doing a city tour. I just can’t see the savings of using a bus over a coach being passed onto the passengers.

You do raise a valid point though, someone needs to approach Tours and ask for their opinion.

I don't recall ever doing an excursion on a bus, although in many European ports I've been on regular buses, often hired from the local municipal operator, which take you away from the port area to the heart of town. These are often free.

But you are right, proper day, or half-day, tours tend to be run using proper coaches.

That said, BV have some hi-spec, almost new double-deckers, and I would have thought a ride on the top of one of those, through the Manx countryside, would be well-received by the average cruise passenger from the US or Europe, where such vehicles are a bit of a novelty. 

None of this excuses the fact that a succession of Ministers allowed Longworth to pursue an aggressive, predatory and destructive strategy towards BV's only competitor. Maybe that should be investigated. But, in practical terms, we are, where we are.  

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

everyone moans about the bus service losing money, but when they do some commercial activity to pull in extra funds - everyone moans

Ian, is that you?

[WTF]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

everyone moans about the bus service losing money, but when they do some commercial activity to pull in extra funds - everyone moans

they should be using resources to provide the local and school services they are supposed to 

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

everyone moans about the bus service losing money, but when they do some commercial activity to pull in extra funds - everyone moans

Do you really think the cruise contracts will make any money? Additional wear/tear, paying drivers over time because they’re short on drivers, fuel costs are through the roof, if they make any money from the cruises it’s only because it’s subsidised in the first place, profit on paper only.

[Newsdesk]

17 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I don't recall ever doing an excursion on a bus, although in many European ports I've been on regular buses, often hired from the local municipal operator, which take you away from the port area to the heart of town. These are often free.

This whole situation is just typical of the usual IOM Government tactics of meddling in things that they shouldn’t be meddling in. We must be one of the few countries in the world where affluent Cruiseliner passengers are driven round the countryside in  basic service buses. Most other places you get a nice luxury coach so you can sit higher up and see the scenery properly. But as usual the IOM likes to give the impression that it’s a socialist state where everyone is treated like they’re a common government worker.

But as a poster has already said above. No private business in its right mind would invest into its fleet to scale up to accommodate tourist transfers from cruise boats while a government agency is sat in the background with multi millions of pounds worth of vehicles sitting idle in carparks all around the IOM who is prepared to do the work for nothing just so it can pretend that it’s being “commercial”. The whole thing is insane. Add to that the way they have destroyed the horse tram system by basically being incompetent despite paying for advice from skilled engineers which they then ignored you have to wonder why nobody has pulled any of these people in over the last 10 years and given them the boot. 

[Kopek]

Another factor in the decline and probably, the biggest, is that the Coach Tours bring their own coaches over here and use them to bus people to various sites. Tours are not involved anymore!

[The Old Git]

Do our buses have a PA system so tour guides can point out our funny looking sheep and cats?

[quilp]