Will Halsall Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, 0bserver said: 330ml cans? That’s them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Halsall Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Wavey Davey said: Yes I think you and Will Halsall misinterpreted what I said. They’re all liars but they shouldn’t be. If it was me as Minister they’d only lie to me once. Ministers need to be able to trust the civil servants who provide the. with answers and if they can’t do that then the civil servants shouldn’t have jobs. Apologies, I am with you now👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Will Halsall said: Estrella - Shoprite PE were selling 10 for £12.99 yesterday or 20 for £13 Wish they sold Cisk (as we're talking Malta) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, The Old Git said: In 2016 Strange how Malta were able to buy them, ship them, convert them and still make money out of using them. At a time when we were replacing them with no expense spared while simultaneously having a race to the bottom with driver's pay and conditions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: Strange how Malta were able to buy them, ship them, convert them and still make money out of using them. At a time when we were replacing them with no expense spared while simultaneously having a race to the bottom with driver's pay and conditions. The old chestnut that wages come from the 'revenue budget' but new vehicles come from the magic money tree/capital budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Wavey Davey said: Yes I think you and Will Halsall misinterpreted what I said. They’re all liars but they shouldn’t be. If it was me as Minister they’d only lie to me once. Ministers need to be able to trust the civil servants who provide the. with answers and if they can’t do that then the civil servants shouldn’t have jobs. Apologies too , agree with your points. Sadly CS are actually bullet proof and it needs looked at seriously and they all informed its a potential sackable offence . Got away with it to long . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 6 hours ago, Gladys said: However, it will take some definition wrangling to get from zero to 177 without at least a shred of disengenuity. Perhaps the info fed to TC said something like "nil cancelled on x definition of cancelled, but if you take y definition it is 177" and he unwittingly abridged it somewhat. It's worth remembering that when Ministers answer questions in Keys or Tynwald, the immediate answer they give is read out from a text supplied by civil servants[1]. The more diligent or independent-minded Ministers may amend them by agreement but the first reply is always pre-prepared (and usually sounds like it). With oral questions the Minister should also be briefed with additional info to deal with any supplementaries. In this case the relevant bit of Crookall's reply was: We all know there had been difficulties before TT and we were aware of concerns, but the full service was delivered and many extra journeys operated over that period. It was Wannenburgh's question and he later said "I am aware that a number of service duties were cancelled and not communicated through the social media pages". And there was later this exchange: Mr Wannenburgh: I was not quite sure what the Minister said. Could he just clarify that all services ran over TT? Is that the case? The Minister: As far as I am led to believe all the published services that were in the timetable as published on 9th May were delivered, albeit some of them were obviously very late, as I said, when it is taking four and a half hours for doing a round trip. Unless they now claim that a 'full service' means that at least one bus ran on the route (no matter how many were scheduled) or some similar nonsense, it looks pretty clear and it certainly appears that Crookall was definitely informed that none had been cancelled. [1] DoI once accidentally put up a batch of written questions showing the names of who prepared each one and that they had to be countersigned by the CEO, though not the Minister, who presumably could remain completely ignorant of the content. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Unless they now claim that a 'full service' means that at least one bus ran on the route (no matter how many were scheduled) or some similar nonsense, it looks pretty clear and it certainly appears that Crookall was definitely informed that none had been cancelled. As far as I am led to believe - He really doesn’t sound that confident that what he has been told isn’t a load of made up bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 6 hours ago, Will Halsall said: On a separate note, and I stand to be corrected, I don’t think Malta took any of our buses, my understanding was that they wanted to move away from the old privately owned charabancs to a new modernised fleet. There was some amusing Bendy Bus incidents during this transition however. 6 hours ago, skins said: Doesn’t mention how many but at least one spotted out there https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/manx-bus-spotted-acting-as-tour-vehicle-in-malta/ The publicly-subsidised bus fleet was indeed modernised with new vehicles (I think a lot of EU dosh was involved) and most of the existing ones (Wiki says they had "an average age of 35 years") were scrapped with some retained for a museum (didn't one end up in Jurby?). After the Arriva debacle, they were rebranded as Malta Public Transport, and much investment continues to be made. Naturally being Malta there was much corruption, politics and clientelism involved at every stage. But as well as the public buses, there are also at least three private bus companies offering tours in Malta, two using open topped vehicles. Presumably the Manx buses were sold to them via a broker and then modified. It's telling that the reaction of Bus Vannin to this wasn't to be ashamed that they had sold off perfectly good buses cheap, but horror that it was obvious and vowing to do more in future to disguise this fact. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 39 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: It's worth remembering that when Ministers answer questions in Keys or Tynwald, the immediate answer they give is read out from a text supplied by civil servants[1]. The more diligent or independent-minded Ministers may amend them by agreement but the first reply is always pre-prepared (and usually sounds like it). With oral questions the Minister should also be briefed with additional info to deal with any supplementaries. In this case the relevant bit of Crookall's reply was: We all know there had been difficulties before TT and we were aware of concerns, but the full service was delivered and many extra journeys operated over that period. It was Wannenburgh's question and he later said "I am aware that a number of service duties were cancelled and not communicated through the social media pages". And there was later this exchange: Mr Wannenburgh: I was not quite sure what the Minister said. Could he just clarify that all services ran over TT? Is that the case? The Minister: As far as I am led to believe all the published services that were in the timetable as published on 9th May were delivered, albeit some of them were obviously very late, as I said, when it is taking four and a half hours for doing a round trip. Unless they now claim that a 'full service' means that at least one bus ran on the route (no matter how many were scheduled) or some similar nonsense, it looks pretty clear and it certainly appears that Crookall was definitely informed that none had been cancelled. [1] DoI once accidentally put up a batch of written questions showing the names of who prepared each one and that they had to be countersigned by the CEO, though not the Minister, who presumably could remain completely ignorant of the content. It was a generous possible explanation of how the briefing was recalled. I wonder what is meant that "a number of service duties were cancelled". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 How about they just kick the CS into the long grass and answer honestly. After all, that’s why we voted them in… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Crookall has paid the price, maybe others will be more cautious? Ministers and CS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 31 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: But as well as the public buses, there are also at least three private bus companies offering tours in Malta, two using open topped vehicles. Presumably the Manx buses were sold to them via a broker and then modified. It's telling that the reaction of Bus Vannin to this wasn't to be ashamed that they had sold off perfectly good buses cheap, but horror that it was obvious and vowing to do more in future to disguise this fact. I don't know all of the details of how Bus vannin operates, but normally buses will be operated for a number of years. This will be up to the point that they would be expected to begin to incur large maintenance costs and the warranty expires. They are sold on whilst there is a decent resale value still attached and that money is invested in new replacements. This is the current thinking in fleet management, overall it costs less to run the fleet and the buses retain their reliability! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 36 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: But as well as the public buses, there are also at least three private bus companies offering tours in Malta, two using open topped vehicles. Presumably the Manx buses were sold to them via a broker and then modified. The broker was probably Longworths brother. Who brokered most the other buses we sold off on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kopek said: Crookall has paid the price, maybe others will be more cautious? Ministers and CS! I wouldn't think the TT statement was the reason for him being moved, that happened on the very same day that he made the Tynwald statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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