Bus Vannin in Crisis

[Ringy Rose]

8 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Either as taxpayer and/or passenger we're screwed. The service is neither one thing or another.

Bus operators in the UK are still struggling with a lack of drivers, it's not just here. The bus service (Arriva) where I used to live hasn't been reliable for over a year now.

Bus Vannin is a pretty good service, far better than a similarly rural region in the UK would ever receive (look at the timetable from Carlisle to Keswick as an example).

I'd agree that they should focus on the service buses and not private hire, but if they're expected to bring in additional revenue then that means ConnectPorts and that means private hire. And once you've agreed the private hire it's hard to cancel it again.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ringy Rose

[Steve_Christian]

15 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Either as taxpayer and/or passenger we're screwed. The service is neither one thing or another.

No it is literally the job of BV to be not one thing or the other. It is a service to the community which means it has a duty to run unprofitable routes - and it has a duty to try and make up for this with profitable routes and initiatives like private hire. It can’t be one thing or the other. It has to be both. 

[Max Power]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

The buses always used to do private hire -  around the TT course pubs for example was a regular thing in the eighties. 

I think that was mainly Tours coaches Declan? Mind you the last TT course trip I did was in the eighties. We never made it to the Creg.

[WTF]

40 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

 The service is neither one thing or another.

well one thing it is is shit, and another thing it is is also shit.

[Andy Onchan]

12 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

No it is literally the job of BV to be not one thing or the other. It is a service to the community which means it has a duty to run unprofitable routes - and it has a duty to try and make up for this with profitable routes and initiatives like private hire. It can’t be one thing or the other. It has to be both. 

Disagree. 

[Apple]

Remind me again why we pay taxes to the Government. I used to think it was to provide services to the public. When did it become compulsory for public services to adopt business models and practices that made them 'profitable?'

 

[Declan]

25 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think that was mainly Tours coaches Declan? Mind you the last TT course trip I did was in the eighties. We never made it to the Creg.

I think they both provided the service. Certainly I rode on Double Deckers. 

Of course they didn't run a night bus and the buses were less frequent and drivers spent longer drinking tea in those days. So there was more spare capacity. 

[Ringy Rose]

1 minute ago, Apple said:

When did it become compulsory for public services to adopt business models and practices that made them 'profitable?

When the last administration got Beamans in to prepare a very expensive report demanding that public services be "more efficient". So we have private hires and we have the bus drivers getting screwed on pay (the government edict was actually cited in their employment tribunal).

Funnily enough those drivers who were screwed over now don't want to bail BV out.

We can have good services or we can have cheap services, but not both.

[Apple]

1 minute ago, Ringy Rose said:

We can have good services or we can have cheap services, but not both.

Does that apply to health and care services then ?

 

[Ringy Rose]

5 minutes ago, Apple said:

Does that apply to health and care services then ?

Yes, it does.

You see this with arguments about NHS budgets only ever getting bigger. They do get bigger, but the second the NHS says they won't spend £5m on a new cancer drug for a dying kid all hell breaks loose.

[Steve_Christian]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Disagree. 

So you don’t think it is there as a public service or you don’t think it should try and make a profit? Or both? In which case what do you think it is? 

[Andy Onchan]

5 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

So you don’t think it is there as a public service or you don’t think it should try and make a profit? Or both? In which case what do you think it is? 

First and foremost it's a public service, the taxpayer comes first and profit later, if indeed it does need to make a profit.

If i'm not mistaken the early morning owl service was initially set up as part of the anti drink-driving campaign (2018, Spew'n Juan and all that?), so it's clear the service was set up for a public service reason. It wasn't something that was just plucked out of the air. Whether 01:15 or 00:15 should be the last departure time I guess should be up for evaluation. However, using state assets for private hire after either of those times and without that review/evaluation taking place is simply wrong.

[Steve_Christian]

9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

First and foremost it's a public service, the taxpayer comes first and profit later, if indeed it does need to make a profit.

If i'm not mistaken the early morning owl service was initially set up as part of the anti drink-driving campaign (2018, Spew'n Juan and all that?), so it's clear the service was set up for a public service reason. It wasn't something that was just plucked out of the air. Whether 01:15 or 00:15 should be the last departure time I guess should be up for evaluation. However, using state assets for private hire after either of those times and without that review/evaluation taking place is simply wrong.

So you agree it’s a public service but there should be no initiatives to offset the costs? 

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, Steve_Christian said:

So you agree it’s a public service but there should be no initiatives to offset the costs? 

You mean compete against taxis and the other bus operator?

[Steve_Christian]

5 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

You mean compete against taxis and the other bus operator?

So loss making and higher taxes?