Ashford: Should he stay or should he go?

[Ham_N_Eggs]

21 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

but it would be wrong to say everything that happened was down to David Ashford alone.

No-one is saying it is all down to him BUT he is responsible for the Department. He was the People's representative, our non-excutive director if you like, at the DHSC charged with producing policy. It is he that failed in those duties because he CHOSE to only listen to one voice. No one made him. 

It is interesting that Skelly shut down questions in the way he did because he himself should have quit at least twice. Now the civil service is going to be reformed, at great expense, but the same management will still be there (bar Greenhow and Magson), headed by Ministers who can not ever admit they've made mistakes, a chief minister who is spearheading this nonsense and all enabled by a President who won't allow Ministers to be properly held to account. 

So no isn't all about Ashford but that doesn't mean he shouldn't go.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Ham_N_Eggs

[Ham_N_Eggs]

19 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

 

DUPLICATE POST

Edited May 17, 2022 by Ham_N_Eggs

[buncha wankas]

On 5/16/2022 at 6:35 PM, SleepyJoe said:

 

Hooper shirked his responsibility 

Hooper not up to the job

Hewitt conspired with Magson, integrity gone

Dr Glover stood her ground

complacency and arrogance of government workers.

duty of care on the media 

form of corruption, rotten 🍎 apples

destroyed lives

some straight talking between Robertshaw and Moulton

[Gladys]

No, not down to DA alone, but he was Health Minister and, it would seem, backed the wrong side or didn't enquire too deeply allowing this shameful situation to perpetuate. 

That is the issue or do you think Ministers should just simply shrug and say that their officials  got it wrong?

If so, what is the point of the Ministerial structure?  

It is unfortunate what happened to Dr Ranson? No, it is a f*cking disgrace and all those complicit, either actively, or wilfully blind or incompetent should not be remaining in positions of authority and trust,  because they have simply failed in their obligation to serve the GMP fairly, competently and adequately.  They are in a position of public trust and have simply failed to honour that obligation, whether civil servant or politician.  I emphasise servant because that is their role; to serve the public.

A very sad day for Manx politics and democracy.  The list of those tainted was expanded exponentially today. 

 

[thommo2010]

7 hours ago, Bandits said:

Yes there was a really angry mate of his who was trothing at the mouth in a similar way on Facebook though if I recall. 

You seem to be frothing at the mouth. Calm down 

[Non-Believer]

5 hours ago, Gladys said:

A very sad day for Manx politics and democracy.  The list of those tainted was expanded exponentially today. 

Not unexpectedly, nor for the first time, we saw #clubtynwald draw the chairs together and take precedence.

[cissolt]

6 hours ago, Steady Eddie said:

Oh right. As Ashie an apron wearer then? If so you’re likely right.

Check the Tynwald members register.  One does wonder how a man with no discernible skills, apart from his Walter Mitty approach to inventing them, remains in position. 

[2112]

6 hours ago, Gladys said:

No, not down to DA alone, but he was Health Minister and, it would seem, backed the wrong side or didn't enquire too deeply allowing this shameful situation to perpetuate. 

That is the issue or do you think Ministers should just simply shrug and say that their officials  got it wrong?

If so, what is the point of the Ministerial structure?  

It is unfortunate what happened to Dr Ranson? No, it is a f*cking disgrace and all those complicit, either actively, or wilfully blind or incompetent should not be remaining in positions of authority and trust,  because they have simply failed in their obligation to serve the GMP fairly, competently and adequately.  They are in a position of public trust and have simply failed to honour that obligation, whether civil servant or politician.  I emphasise servant because that is their role; to serve the public.

A very sad day for Manx politics and democracy.  The list of those tainted was expanded exponentially today. 

 

I think a lot of the politicos, and not just Ashford (who has failed miserably) like the prestige, vestige and trappings of their positions, along with the adulation, respect and deference that the Titles of MHK or Honourable brings with being elected. Some can’t accept that if you have been found wanting, criticised, or possibly censured, their is a likelihood that you should do the honourable thing and resign. Unlike with UK politics there is a chance after a couple of years of backbench activity, you could be reappointed a Minister, given another chance. Ashford sadly wants it all but like a spoilt child he can’t take criticism nor can he be honourable, in doing the right thing, and especially galling is his hiding behind his colleagues. The video clips of MHKs asking CM Cannan questions following his statement, speaks volumes, especially Ashford body language and demeanour. 

[Hoops]

6 hours ago, Gladys said:

No, not down to DA alone, but he was Health Minister and, it would seem, backed the wrong side or didn't enquire too deeply allowing this shameful situation to perpetuate. 

That is the issue or do you think Ministers should just simply shrug and say that their officials  got it wrong?

If so, what is the point of the Ministerial structure?  

It is unfortunate what happened to Dr Ranson? No, it is a f*cking disgrace and all those complicit, either actively, or wilfully blind or incompetent should not be remaining in positions of authority and trust,  because they have simply failed in their obligation to serve the GMP fairly, competently and adequately.  They are in a position of public trust and have simply failed to honour that obligation, whether civil servant or politician.  I emphasise servant because that is their role; to serve the public.

A very sad day for Manx politics and democracy.  The list of those tainted was expanded exponentially today. 

 

Well,with the filtration of information through the various levels of civil service management without, seemingly, any ministerial oversight, it does show that the point of the ministerial structure is to have a democratically elected representative there to announce unelected officials' decisions.

[asitis]

8 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

None of them are qualified to do the roles that they are given

You don't need to be qualified to have a sense of listening to people who know what they are talking about. In Ashfords case it was plainly obvious he had sidelined the science and was listening to ego !

I have opined many times that these people wake up in a morning look at themselves in the mirror and feel "yes I am the minister for health and I know all about it ", if this is the way they feel and they do, they are unfit for office !

Let's face it, there are a few that frankly are as thick as a whale omelette, and whatever makes them think they are decision making material in a supposedly independent country beggars belief !

[Hoops]

3 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I think a lot of the politicos, and not just Ashford (who has failed miserably) like the prestige, vestige and trappings of their positions, along with the adulation, respect and deference that the Titles of MHK or Honourable brings with being elected. Some can’t accept that if you have been found wanting, criticised, or possibly censured, their is a likelihood that you should do the honourable thing and resign. Unlike with UK politics there is a chance after a couple of years of backbench activity, you could be reappointed a Minister, given another chance. Ashford sadly wants it all but like a spoilt child he can’t take criticism nor can he be honourable, in doing the right thing, and especially galling is his hiding behind his colleagues. The video clips of MHKs asking CM Cannan questions following his statement, speaks volumes, especially Ashford body language and demeanour. 

And unlike the UK system, there isn't the accountability of the political party that you represent to be reckoned with.

Here, there is no accountability bar elections.

[Andy Onchan]

Who's clever idea was it to have the DHSC/Manx Care CEO operate at (physical) arms length? Who approved of that arrangement? Who signed off on that?

[John Wright]

19 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Who's clever idea was it to have the DHSC/Manx Care CEO operate at (physical) arms length? Who approved of that arrangement? Who signed off on that?

But that wasn’t the idea or intention. It was 3 x 10 hour days on island and available from home the rest of the working week. In case you hadn’t noticed, from March 2020, that became legally impossible.

[Bandits]

2 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

You seem to be frothing at the mouth. Calm down 

Far from it. 

[joebean]

What we witnessed yesterday was a tragically sad day for Manx politics and the integrity of Tynwald. Presided over by Skelly with Ashford holding his “honourable” position in total contempt. I voted for Alf Cannan and I am still shocked that he has abused the trust that I and many others placed in him to do the right thing on big issues. He was supposed to be the new broom after the years of Quayle inactive, ignorant , ego-protecting and clique-dominated office. 
Yes, the pandemic was a difficult and unprecedented time where decisions had to be made in a pressured environment. However, that does not excuse the behaviour that has been identified in the tribunal judgement. Effective and principled leaders maintain their standards in such situations and the qualities of listening, considering and keeping to what is true generally assist in making the right decisions at the right time. Instead, we got something different. It’s not good enough and there are no acceptable excuses. 
Faced with the need to be decisive and show leadership and principle, Alf chose to take the path of getting rid of one senior official (rightly); promising things will be better at some unspecified time in the future; to spout placatory BS and to allow the unworthy and pretentious President to stifle a debate of the issues some MHKs and the majority of the concerned public wanted. It’s a disgrace. Alf Cannan needs to quickly take stock of this debacle, be big enough to put his hands up and acknowledge the error and do the right things. It’s his only salvation.