Ashford: Should he stay or should he go?

[Declan]

7 minutes ago, Wavey Davey said:

On what basis do you think he should stay? 

He's spotted Ashy's not a woman. 

[Bandits]

3 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I was at a dinner on Saturday night where I was the youngest guest by about thirty years. 

You hit the nail on the head there. He’s idolized largely by a load of old codgers who were scared into thinking they might die without “Ashy” which is absolute rubbish. It was little short of the wartime propaganda crap you’d have read on Pathe News in 1944. 

[2112]

33 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

I think David should stay, he has worked incredibly hard since he was elected and hindsight is a wonderful thing.  

I don’t think your right but I don’t think your wrong. Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I feel in this case, he led the Department at the time when there were issues. Things were disfunctional to say the least. After the findings I think the voters and taxpayers, expect openness, candour and transparency. They also expect empathy and politicos to relate to people. Sadly Ashie is rather aloof and coming across like a child putting his fingers in his ears to drown out the noise lalalalala. By resigning from COMIN and accepting that things within the Department, hadn’t worked out well, there were many issues coming out of the employment tribunal. By resigning he could draw a line under the matter (unless it’s referred to other authorities), and a new Treasury Minister can be allowed to get on with things. The pain of resigning and the attention on him will be over in a couple of days, and the spotlight will fall on another MHK. As things stand, Ashie is a distraction. A decent and firm leader would have advised him to stand down, go back to his constituency, and if he behaves himself, maybe in 2024 he would be recalled, giving him an exile of 18 months which is no great hardship. 

[2112]

1 minute ago, Bandits said:

You hit the nail on the head there. He’s idolized largely by a load of old codgers who were scared into thinking they might die without “Ashy” which is absolute rubbish. It was little short of the wartime propaganda crap you’d have read on Pathe News in 1944. 

IOMG spin doctors are good at propaganda, especially Manx Radio news reports, Facebook good news stories and creative bullshit news stories.

[jackwhite]

1 hour ago, quilp said:

From what I've been reading there are many Ashford stalwarts who don't feel as most posters do, on here. It appears he still has a loyal fan-base giving him encouragement and support. Which leads me to believe that he ain't going anywhere in the immediate future.

Would be interesting to know Quayle's opinion on all this. 

Whatever it is, Ashford will, true to form, echo it.

[2112]

16 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

You’re not alone in your opinion. 

I was at a dinner on Saturday night where I was the youngest guest by about thirty years. 

The subject of Ashford  came up and most were in support for him for getting us through a global pandemic relatively unscathed. 

The thing is though Sid, is that he didn’t. It was more by luck and by a sense of community coming together to ensure we abided by the rules that got us through  

He fumbled his way through. he pretended he was an expert , he shot down anyone who suggested otherwise. He ensured that someone who could have helped in the efforts against covid was ostracised and smeared. He made things up, got a lot of things wrong and not once took accountability for any of it.

Now, during an official enquiry, the truth of his inadequacy, his duplicity, his falsehoods, have come to light. You call it hindsight, many others call it justice  

It doesn’t matter that he replies quickly to your emails and sorts out stuff for you at a local level. Anyone can do that. 

What matters is that he is a senior states-person, in a position of high authority, who, when questioned in an official enquiry, will lie, blame shift, shape shift and squirm his way out of admitting his true character and out of taking any responsibility for his mistakes. 

Even now, after being declared a dangerous fantasist, he is attempting to distance himself from any wrong doing.

That’s what matters Sid  

He’s played you and he’s played many others. He’s still playing you, and others who think he’s a good lad  

It’s one thing he is very good at.  

 

We have one inquiry relating to an Employment Tribunal where there is a question mark hanging over him, and he has been criticised. There is a IOMG Covid Inquiry due to start, maybe there will be some criticism made of his leadership, especially relating to other matters - border closure, Abbotswood, Police Arrests and Convictions etc. He may escape criticism and come out squeaky clean if it’s a tame Athol Street Establishment Inquiry Chair. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by 2112

[The Phantom]

16 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

The subject of Ashford  came up and most were in support for him for getting us through a global pandemic relatively unscathed. 

The thing is though Sid, is that he didn’t. It was more by luck and by a sense of community coming together to ensure we abided by the rules that got us through  

Exactly.  It was just luck and a benefit of our geography. 

By the same rationale, surely someone should give the Irish Sea an MBE.  Our 'moat' was more responsible for our outcome than any one person. 

[Lost Login]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

Pretty shit poll construction. I think the answer to the first question is "YES" to both options - he should resign and if he won't he should resign. Also the absence of a He Should Carry on Regardless  option means you can claim 100% think he should be sacked or resign -when it's probably closer to 98%. 

Question 3 is irrelevant - these circumstances don't meet the criteria for withdrawal of an honour.  

Totally agree it is a pretty shit poll which you can only really respond to if you think Ashford should be sacked or resign.

I have not voted as at this point I have not read the full unfair dismissal report of 200 pages. I wonder how many who voted have. Without reading I would just be voting based on headlines or prejudices and might be able to put up an argument for both sides. e.g. One of the headlines is that Ashford was overly reliant on his CEO but it could be argued that if you think  you can not rely on them why are they in position. It could also be argued it is wrong to be totally reliant on your CEO and not to weigh up what they are telling you.

[cissolt]

11 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Totally agree it is a pretty shit poll which you can only really respond to if you think Ashford should be sacked or resign.

I have not voted as at this point I have not read the full unfair dismissal report of 200 pages. I wonder how many who voted have. Without reading I would just be voting based on headlines or prejudices and might be able to put up an argument for both sides. e.g. One of the headlines is that Ashford was overly reliant on his CEO but it could be argued that if you think  you can not rely on them why are they in position. It could also be argued it is wrong to be totally reliant on your CEO and not to weigh up what they are telling you.

Read the tribunal and cast your vote.  Cope and Ranson are the only ones who come out with any shred of credibility.

[english zloty]

Just got a txt. Will Greenhow has sorted his payoff/ announced his retirement. I guess helping the CM with a scapegoat for tomorrow’s speech

[quilp]

Free Willy. 

[The Old Git]

7 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

Is this for real? The retirement bit? 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/islands-chief-secretary-announces-retirement/

[Banker]

Greenhow down just Ashford & Ewart to go!

[Manxman2000]

6 minutes ago, Banker said:

Greenhow down just Ashford & Ewart to go!

 

6 minutes ago, Banker said:

Greenhow down just Ashford & Ewart to go!

Just released on you tube an interview with Cris Robertshaw,  well worth listening to.   His opinion is that David Ashford should tender his resignation. He is very supportive of Dr Ranson.  

[Lost Login]

18 minutes ago, Manxman2000 said:

 

Just released on you tube an interview with Cris Robertshaw,  well worth listening to.   His opinion is that David Ashford should tender his resignation. He is very supportive of Dr Ranson.  

If Robertshaw says that then the chances are that it would be better Ashford stays. It is a good rule of thumb that if you take the opposite view to Robertshaw then the chances are you ae more likely to be right than wrong.