HeliX Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, b4mbi said: It was proved in 1982 gas is present. That's good news for Crogga then, they'll be able to skip all that pesky exploration work that they want to start. Quote You'd trust government to develop the field? It's the global norm for the development of the resource to be given to a private company. The government risks no money and stands to gain massively from the license terms which will already be agreed (cap on price at 80p/therm and the tax rate on extraction) They can do this because the Island will only use 5% of the volume of the field. The other 95% will be sold via the existing gas interconnector at market rates. No, but I would want the company doing the work to be publicly owned. Giving away our natural resources to a private company so that we can get a preferable rate on 5% of those resources while they make a killing on the other 95% sounds like a dogshit deal to me. Quote So to say its only Crogga shareholders (most of whom are local by the way) are the only ones to benefit if the project is successful is just wrong, although they are the ones putting their money where mouths are and taking the financial risk. OK, Crogga are 95% of the benefit. Of our finite national resource. Quote Why wouldn't government take this chance with no risk to itself? It would pay for the transition to renewables and generate a national wealth fund, providing energy to the Island that is not dictated by uninfluencable market/geopolitical forces. Exactly what I just said I was concerned about - the Govt will wait to do anything relating to a transition to renewables or energy independence as a result of this. I'd rather the Govt was doing those things now. Quote My understanding is the licence terms agreed also include provisions that the overall development is carbon neutral, so the plan is that wind turbines will be installed as part of the overall development to provide power for the small gas cleaning plant that will be required, with excess being sold back to MUA possibly. So actually, the project is proposing to install the first MW wind turbine on the Island to meet the conditions of the licence. Have you got a link to the licence details? Quote The greens have no realistic plan how to finance the renewables. Properly taxing wealth might be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, HeliX said: No, but I would want the company doing the work to be publicly owned. Giving away our natural resources to a private company so that we can get a preferable rate on 5% of those resources while they make a killing on the other 95% sounds like a dogshit deal to me. What do you mean by publicly owned? Government owned or publicly traded? Simplistically, I would rather Government put no money in but reaped the benefit, even if only a small margin. The kiss of death will be if Government does anything more than be a passive, other than licensing and tax, beneficiary. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Markduc said: Or they are burning bio fuels like drax ps , that strangely enough produces more pollution than when it was coal fired I don't think so but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Gladys said: What do you mean by publicly owned? Government owned or publicly traded? Simplistically, I would rather Government put no money in but reaped the benefit, even if only a small margin. The kiss of death will be if Government does anything more than be a passive, other than licensing and tax, beneficiary. I am sure Stu assured us that we (iom) are investing nothing. I sincerely hope to God that's true. If its to work all the risk needs to be in the private sector. IOM will benefit from taxes, activity on the island etc etc. All this talk of self sufficiency and having our own gas is madness. Edited June 19, 2022 by Happier diner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Infinite resource???? In 10 20 30 years time no one will be using it. So even if there is 100 years of Nat Gas out there, what good will it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, b4mbi said: Think mini-Norway. What? Outrageous alcohol prices and a diet of whale blubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markduc Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 It’s really simple approx figures china 11 billion tons of co2 india 13 billion iom 0.84 million uk 5.8 million where is the problem 🤔 but whatever. at the rate that rain forests (remember them you know the lungs of the earth) are being chopped down we can piss about with questionable battery, wind ,solar it will not make one bit of difference to anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 18 minutes ago, Gladys said: What do you mean by publicly owned? Government owned or publicly traded? Simplistically, I would rather Government put no money in but reaped the benefit, even if only a small margin. The kiss of death will be if Government does anything more than be a passive, other than licensing and tax, beneficiary. If I was making a wishlist, shares for everyone on the island. More shares for those putting the seed money in, set at a level where they can make a healthy return, but the rest should go to residents as it is our national resource. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: What? Outrageous alcohol prices and a diet of whale blubber. Sounds familiar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Markduc said: where is the problem 🤔 In your recognition that the Island has to play its part, no matter how small an effect. Tell your Grankids to just breath into 0.84 % of their lungs! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, HeliX said: shares for everyone on the island We could put those shares into 'renewables'??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, HeliX said: That's good news for Crogga then, they'll be able to skip all that pesky exploration work that they want to start. A detailed 3D seismic survey is needed to ascertain the best place to drill. 32 minutes ago, HeliX said: No, but I would want the company doing the work to be publicly owned. Giving away our natural resources to a private company so that we can get a preferable rate on 5% of those resources while they make a killing on the other 95% sounds like a dogshit deal to me. You don't understand how the licence works. The public/Government own the gas, but are not prepared to pay anything nor take the risk to extract and produce it, as its £100's of millions to do it. They take royalties on any gas extracted, charge the company income tax on profits and will get VAT receipts on the sale of the processed gas. 44 minutes ago, HeliX said: Exactly what I just said I was concerned about - the Govt will wait to do anything relating to a transition to renewables or energy independence as a result of this. I'd rather the Govt was doing those things now. With what money? Happy for income tax to go up to 40%? 46 minutes ago, HeliX said: Have you got a link to the licence details? Properly taxing wealth might be a start. The licence is not a public document, but the terms of it are mentioned in the Moulton interview with Crogga posted in the gas deposit thread. Wealth taxes don't work. Wealth is mobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Happier diner said: What? Outrageous alcohol prices and a diet of whale blubber. A socially responsible society with one of the biggest national wealth funds in the world, which is investing heavily in the transition to renewables from this fund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, b4mbi said: Wealth taxes don't work. Wealth is mobile. That part I agree with but only that part. The wealthy will move their money to where it will get an advantage over the market. You do not have to be particularly astute to seee that carbon products are on the way out? So, where to put their money...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markduc Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Kopek said: In your recognition that the Island has to play its part, no matter how small an effect. Tell your Grankids to just breath into 0.84 % of their lungs! Tell China and India to make a. .84% change it would make a bigger difference but why no mention of the rain forest? Or the continuing building on green fields 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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