Is climate change a fraud?

[Happier diner]

6 hours ago, The Bastard said:

I'm presuming that it would be via a commercial agreement rather than taxation. Like any agreement though, still would need careful diligence in case it would leave open a possibility that the billions of pounds could disappear into overpayments for services from third parties, and end up recording a net loss, whilst these mysterious third parties disappear with the cash. Not saying it would happen, but best to be diligent.

Taxation is probably not the right word. However normally the country that owns the field takes a % of all the oil/gas that is sold. So its like a tax really, but not officially a tax.

[b4mbi]

17 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Taxation is probably not the right word. However normally the country that owns the field takes a % of all the oil/gas that is sold. So its like a tax really, but not officially a tax.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. 😀

[2112]

Clare Barber MHK, Minister of DEFA has been whinging on the NPM today, that ‘fossil fuel’ boiler installations in new builds are frustrating. Yes I find it frustrating that these middle class, chattering class types are dictating to the islanders how they should be living, and controlling their lives. 
 

At present we are at the start of a punishing price upwards curve of energy costs, the like of which most people can’t really afford. I say to Ms Barber, who has obviously has loads of money, so can practice her principles and perhaps rip out her fossil fuel boiler, and get all singing and dancing heating and hot water systems, or perhaps retrofit her home (without the taxpayer funding either). If new builds have heat pumps and new untried and untested new technologies, which are also expensive, adding additional costs to a first time buyers home, how are these new home purchasers supposed to afford the increased expense, after all, our islander developers aren’t going to install new heating/energy technology and do it ‘at cost’ are they? The cost will be inbuilt to the price. 
 

I expected this nonsense from Daffy, to be the first not from Nurse Clare. I just wish these politicos would use a bit of common sense. 

[Happier diner]

2 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Clare Barber MHK, Minister of DEFA has been whinging on the NPM today, that ‘fossil fuel’ boiler installations in new builds are frustrating. Yes I find it frustrating that these middle class, chattering class types are dictating to the islanders how they should be living, and controlling their lives. 
 

At present we are at the start of a punishing price upwards curve of energy costs, the like of which most people can’t really afford. I say to Ms Barber, who has obviously has loads of money, so can practice her principles and perhaps rip out her fossil fuel boiler, and get all singing and dancing heating and hot water systems, or perhaps retrofit her home (without the taxpayer funding either). If new builds have heat pumps and new untried and untested new technologies, which are also expensive, adding additional costs to a first time buyers home, how are these new home purchasers supposed to afford the increased expense, after all, our islander developers aren’t going to install new heating/energy technology and do it ‘at cost’ are they? The cost will be inbuilt to the price. 
 

I expected this nonsense from Daffy, to be the first not from Nurse Clare. I just wish these politicos would use a bit of common sense. 

You seem very ignorant of the facts. Perhaps a bit of research would inform you that heat pumps are not new technology. In fact they are old and we'll established. I believe over 50 years.

If you further researched you would find that well insulated houses with heat pumps installed are not that much more expensive and you would get the cost back in about 5 years.

It's because if ignorance like this that we are pointlessly building poorly insulated houses to save a few pounds in the short term and somehow developer are being allowed to get away with it 

I absolutely agree with Clare Barber. What she says makes great sense. Well done to her to try and get some traction for change. 

Yours Babs

 

[Banker]

19 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You seem very ignorant of the facts. Perhaps a bit of research would inform you that heat pumps are not new technology. In fact they are old and we'll established. I believe over 50 years.

If you further researched you would find that well insulated houses with heat pumps installed are not that much more expensive and you would get the cost back in about 5 years.

It's because if ignorance like this that we are pointlessly building poorly insulated houses to save a few pounds in the short term and somehow developer are being allowed to get away with it 

I absolutely agree with Clare Barber. What she says makes great sense. Well done to her to try and get some traction for change. 

Yours Babs

 

But who can afford an extra £15/20k upfront cost & more like 10 years pay back plus if they go into new builds they will go on the purchase price 

[Happier diner]

24 minutes ago, Banker said:

But who can afford an extra £15/20k upfront cost & more like 10 years pay back plus if they go into new builds they will go on the purchase price 

I don't know where you are getting your prices from. A heatpump system is about £12k compared to about £8k for an oil system and around £6k for gas. So it's only £4k extra. Insulation is not expensive if done at the time. 

It's really expensive to retro fit either so common sense says do it at the time of the build.

With average new house prices around £400k its hardly significant. 

[2112]

With Chris Thomas’ Housing and Communities Board creating new FTB products, which are going to be brought before Tynwald in July, if house prices increase due to ‘new environmental technologies’ on a whim of politicos, will the new rates reflect this? It will be cheaper to have housing with no central heating, or just electric heating, and new residents/owner occupiers sort out their own heating. 

[Omobono]

I don't think the time is right for government to be dictating installation of heating systems , particularly in the present economic climate ,  all they will achieve is to force people into fuel poverty ,unless of course government is willing to grant fund the changes ,  this whole policy should be  placed on hold for a couple of years until  all the uncertainty  regarding  availability of  present fuels  is resolved , and a transition into the new generation  of heating and energy systems  can be properly planned and phased in , 

this is a case where the isle of Man should be watching carefully  where the sensible money is being spent  and looking to provide sources  which fit the isle of Man model . and not under any circumstances  be leaders or first to market , 

as someone said earlier  prices for new energy innovation  will come down as the more successful systems evolve 

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

I don't know where you are getting your prices from. A heatpump system is about £12k compared to about £8k for an oil system and around £6k for gas. So it's only £4k extra. Insulation is not expensive if done at the time. 

It's really expensive to retro fit either so common sense says do it at the time of the build.

With average new house prices around £400k its hardly significant. 

Well according to the energy survey I git via DFE it’s estimating £15/20k for heat/ground source pumps which will probably have gone up by now plus all the digging/ disruption involved.

Not sure who’s quoting you £8k for oil, c£5k max

[Omobono]

I was recently quoted £25 ,000 for a dual solar panel / heat pump  system   to change from gas ,        my current heating system is micro bore  which is also not compatible with the new technology ,  and half my back garden will have to be dug up by hand as I cant get a machine in , if I agree  to go ahead  they cant come for 6 months (winter)  cant  guarantee   no additional cost ,  or predict the running costs due to  fluctuation in the electricity costs , 

 

and I live in a 1950's 3 bed semi ,which is well insulated , 

[finlo]

49 minutes ago, Banker said:

Well according to the energy survey I git via DFE it’s estimating £15/20k for heat/ground source pumps which will probably have gone up by now plus all the digging/ disruption involved.

Not sure who’s quoting you £8k for oil, c£5k max

Even so what are you getting for your 5k?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Well according to the energy survey I git via DFE it’s estimating £15/20k for heat/ground source pumps which will probably have gone up by now plus all the digging/ disruption involved.

Not sure who’s quoting you £8k for oil, c£5k max

You have to consider that with oil I am not just talking about the price of the boiler I am talking tank, boiler, radiators plumbing. 

bTW there is no digging. All the heat pumps on the island would be air source. It's a perfect climate for that. 

You get a reduced electricity tariff for heat pump AFAIK 

 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Omobono said:

I was recently quoted £25 ,000 for a dual solar panel / heat pump  system   to change from gas ,        my current heating system is micro bore  which is also not compatible with the new technology ,  and half my back garden will have to be dug up by hand as I cant get a machine in , if I agree  to go ahead  they cant come for 6 months (winter)  cant  guarantee   no additional cost ,  or predict the running costs due to  fluctuation in the electricity costs , 

 

and I live in a 1950's 3 bed semi ,which is well insulated , 

You have hit the nail on the head. Retro fitting is rubbish. Build it in from new, you don't have all those issues. 

[finlo]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

You have hit the nail on the head. Retro fitting is rubbish. Build it in from new, you don't have all those issues. 

So what are all the other houses on the island supposed to use as this flawed technology is trying to be forced upon us and is clearly not fit for purpose.

[Markduc]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

You seem very ignorant of the facts. Perhaps a bit of research would inform you that heat pumps are not new technology. In fact they are old and we'll established. I believe over 50 years.

If you further researched you would find that well insulated houses with heat pumps installed are not that much more expensive and you would get the cost back in about 5 years.

It's because if ignorance like this that we are pointlessly building poorly insulated houses to save a few pounds in the short term and somehow developer are being allowed to get away with it 

I absolutely agree with Clare Barber. What she says makes great sense. Well done to her to try and get some traction for change. 

Yours Babs

 

What do you propose older housing that is unstable (as in freezing ) use for heating 

if these fruit cakes get their way