Is climate change a fraud?

[HeliX]

And actually, more up to date figures from here have it at more like 350GWh https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/cabinet-office/statistics-isle-of-man/isle-of-man-in-numbers/

[Mercenary]

14 hours ago, Two-lane said:

The Internet shows that the IoM has a consumption of 1660GWh per year.

The Suez data shows maybe 40 GWh per year.

The forecast for Earystane 100 to 150 GWh per year.

Taking the conservative figure for Earystane, that is maybe 6%.

Offset against that the monetary cost of construction, installation, maintenance, repair, replacement of the system and the environmental cost of the damage, the concrete and so on, is it worth it?

You cannot get away from the need of a power station.

 

That's 1660 GWh for all energy (heating, vehicle fuels, electricity). Electricity is the 404 GWh as posted by others.

[Mercenary]

14 hours ago, Two-lane said:

The Internet shows that the IoM has a consumption of 1660GWh per year.

The Suez data shows maybe 40 GWh per year.

The forecast for Earystane 100 to 150 GWh per year.

Taking the conservative figure for Earystane, that is maybe 6%.

Offset against that the monetary cost of construction, installation, maintenance, repair, replacement of the system and the environmental cost of the damage, the concrete and so on, is it worth it?

You cannot get away from the need of a power station.

 

So based on the fact it's more like 350 GWh, making Earystane meet around 1/3rd the needs of IOM - do you now agree it has the potential to be an important energy asset for IOM?

 

That will not change the other infrastructure required (interconnector(s), other dispatchable power plant), but it will mean buying in 1/3rd less energy each year, be that gas/UK grid energy, greatly reducing the marginal cost of electricity and with a relatively small payback time. 

[Cambon]

15 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Not sure where you get your 'information' from.

https://suez.co.im/what-we-do/energy-recovery/electricity-generation/

That is what I looked at. The graph is empty. The generation figures below are the generation figures for iom electricity generation, not Suez. If the incinerator was generating figures like that on a daily basis every day, they would shut off the gas power station! Suez figure when they were generating power was circa 7.5-8.5 Mw a day

[John Wright]

22 minutes ago, Cambon said:

That is what I looked at. The graph is empty. The generation figures below are the generation figures for iom electricity generation, not Suez. If the incinerator was generating figures like that on a daily basis every day, they would shut off the gas power station! Suez figure when they were generating power was circa 7.5-8.5 Mw a day

No, they aren’t. They’re the energy from waste plant figures in the table. That lists shows the amount generated in MWh per day 

Pulrose has a capacity of 135 MW. That’s its capacity. If it was run full tilt it would produce 135MWh per hour, every hour, which is 3240 MWh per day. 

EfW plant has a capacity of 6 MW and maximum out put over 24 hours around 135 MWh

[Two-lane]

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/eventual-cost-of-windfarm-yet-to-be-determined/

Final costs are as yet unknown, but will be not less than...

[Also Wannenburgh does not want names to be named. Maybe, but if things go right people will want their names to be plastered all over LinkedIn and other sites]

[Cambon]

47 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No, they aren’t. They’re the energy from waste plant figures in the table. That lists shows the amount generated in MWh per day 

Pulrose has a capacity of 135 MW. That’s its capacity. If it was run full tilt it would produce 135MWh per hour, every hour, which is 3240 MWh per day. 

EfW plant has a capacity of 6 MW and maximum out put over 24 hours around 135 MWh

Ah! Ok. I see. I thought it was talking about constant production rate. 
I apologise to everyone! 
Also, it was a bit silly of me to expect the graph to work

[Cambon]

5 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/eventual-cost-of-windfarm-yet-to-be-determined/

Final costs are as yet unknown, but will be not less than...

[Also Wannenburgh does not want names to be named. Maybe, but if things go right people will want their names to be plastered all over LinkedIn and other sites]

Don’t worry, they wont. 

[John Wright]

Just now, Cambon said:

Also, it was a bit silly of me to expect the graph to work

Hasn’t worked for months. Which is useful for them when they have repeated and extensive down time.

[Cambon]

3 hours ago, Mercenary said:

So based on the fact it's more like 350 GWh, making Earystane meet around 1/3rd the needs of IOM - do you now agree it has the potential to be an important energy asset for IOM?

 

That will not change the other infrastructure required (interconnector(s), other dispatchable power plant), but it will mean buying in 1/3rd less energy each year, be that gas/UK grid energy, greatly reducing the marginal cost of electricity and with a relatively small payback time. 

But will it? We are talking about a 20Mw windfarm, which if we are lucky will run at 1/3 capacity, so 6.67Mw. Our requirement varies from around 25 min. to 75 peak, with an average of around 40Mw. 6.67 is 1/6 of the average. 

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, Cambon said:

But will it? We are talking about a 20Mw windfarm, which if we are lucky will run at 1/3 capacity, so 6.67Mw. Our requirement varies from around 25 min. to 75 peak, with an average of around 40Mw. 6.67 is 1/6 of the average. 

You can’t average averages like that.

if it’s a 20MW capacity, some times it’ll produce 20, other times 10, other times 0. 

You know that demand isn’t constant. So, on a windy day of low demand it can produce 80%.

it’s having the mix, using less oil/gas/carbons, and having back up for when there isn’t wind.

And Pulrose is about 10 years out from redundancy.

[Cambon]

6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You can’t average averages like that.

if it’s a 20MW capacity, some times it’ll produce 20, other times 10, other times 0. 

You know that demand isn’t constant. So, on a windy day of low demand it can produce 80%.

it’s having the mix, using less oil/gas/carbons, and having back up for when there isn’t wind.

And Pulrose is about 10 years out from redundancy.

Yes, I said all of that above. 20Mw capacity, if we are lucky we will get about 1/3 out of it. Demand varies from 25-75Mw (not constant). However average is around 40. 1/3 of 20 is 1/6 of 40. 
Nothing to do with oil, gas, carbon, resilience or redundancy of Pulrose. 
What I was replying to was a comment that they will produce 1/3 of our annual requirements. They wont come close. 

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Yes, I said all of that above. 20Mw capacity, if we are lucky we will get about 1/3 out of it. Demand varies from 25-75Mw (not constant). However average is around 40. 1/3 of 20 is 1/6 of 40. 
Nothing to do with oil, gas, carbon, resilience or redundancy of Pulrose. 
What I was replying to was a comment that they will produce 1/3 of our annual requirements. They wont come close. 

You’re confusing capacity to generate with output/consumption again.

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

if it’s a 20MW capacity, some times it’ll produce 20, other times 10, other times 0. 

No technology is 100% efficient...too many physics rules broken if claimed otherwise.

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

You’re confusing capacity to generate with output/consumption again.

I am not confused at all. Talking about anything other than real time production of electricity is a nonsense. How much “might” or “could” be produced is simply speculation. If the wind is blowing well, there will be less reliance on the interconnector. If there is no wind, there is pretty much 100% reliance. 

Edited June 25 by Cambon