Is climate change a fraud?

[Stu Peters]

10 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

The last person that spouted that self-indulgent shite was Eddie Teare, it was as wrong then as it is now.

It's ALL taxpayer's money, whether it's spent as a consumer or in payment of taxes and charges. This is something that IoMG lost sight of some time ago and why fiscal control is a joke on the Island.

Which leads on to why the Govt have now got no money and a £40M pa pensions deficit and public servants are about to remove funds from future public pension provision to help pay for it.

So McDonalds are funded or subsidised by taxpayer’s money?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, doc.fixit said:

But all the so called renewables cost massive emissions in manufacture, maintenance, construction and disposal at end of short life.

No they don't. Far smaller carbon footprint than any other technology. 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Chinahand said:

The Combined Cycle Gas Turbine is more efficient than diesel/petrol engines. 

A bit. But then you have inefficiencies in electricity distribution, voltage and frequency changes and then the electric motor itself. I'll bet there is very little in it at the point of use. 

[The Phantom]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

A bit. But then you have inefficiencies in electricity distribution, voltage and frequency changes and then the electric motor itself. I'll bet there is very little in it at the point of use. 

Gas burns a lot cleaner than petrol or diesel. 

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Gas burns a lot cleaner than petrol or diesel. 

Not in terms of CO2 it doesn't. Its worse. 

[HiVibes]

55 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

So McDonalds are funded or subsidised by taxpayer’s money?

I imagine that's all you eat.

[Chinahand]

36 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Not in terms of CO2 it doesn't. Its worse. 

I don't think that is right.

Diesel primary energy is 266.5 g CO2/KWh(PE) significantly higher than the 200.8 g CO2/KWh(PE) for natural gas.

You then have the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine/cycle.

Diesel engines in cars are at best about 40% efficient on the road. A Combined Cycle Gas Turbine is 60%.

That's 666.25 g CO2/KWh useable output for a diesel v 334.67 g CO2/KWh useable output for the CCGT.

The CCGT then has at worst 10% transmission loses, 10% storage losses and 10% conversion losses putting the energy through the grid, into the battery and out through the engine. That's 459 g CO2/KWh useable into the road.

Obviously all these figures are variable on conditions, but the difference between 666 g CO2/KWh useable for a diesel and 459 g CO2/KWh useable for an electric car powered by a CCGT is too much for me to believe you are correct. ... unless I've missed something significant ... which I don't think I have, but I'm as fallible as the next human!

 

https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.php

 

Edited Thursday at 03:24 PM by Chinahand
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[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Stu Peters said:

So McDonalds are funded or subsidised by taxpayer’s money?

I was referring to consumers who pay for the use of public services. Government own no money, they are the custodians of it, although that's fanciful thinking in the minds of our self-serving and entitled public servants who clearly have you wrapped around their collective little finger.

Ramsey MUI now closing weekends, courtesy of cutbacks and "savings". No money for Balthane roundabout (so we'll try and blame Dandara). No money to pay bus drivers on their statutory days off so we'll cancel scheduled services. No visible present recruitment of ATCOs so flights are impacted.

All part of many indicators that the money is running out, somebody posted that we're down to £600M in free reserves. That's less than one year's worth of annual IoM public salaries to put things in perspective. Proposals now to raid the NI Fund of TAXPAYERS MONEY to fund it instead

Yet we'll try and recruit an "Advertising Manager" at £50k for the airport because the Commercial Director is too idle or incompetent to get off its arse and do the duties prescribed.

Of course, the two things that aren't being cut are the big tickets within the public sector wage costs and oh yes, the pensions provision.

But then again, not a penny of it is taxpayers money of course so it doesn't matter.

Dear God.

 

[Anyone]

If you’re going to get really technical about it The Government ( or issuer of bank notes in the UK’s case the Bank of England who act as the UK government’s banker ) own all the money. So there is really no such thing as taxpayers money. 

[Chinahand]

I've a friend who says that is the reason he is big into BitCoin!

[The Phantom]

40 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Not in terms of CO2 it doesn't. Its worse. 

 

5 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

I don't think that is right.

Diesel primary energy is 266.5 g CO2/KWh(PE) significantly higher than the 200.8 g CO2/KWh(PE) for natural gas.

You then have the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine/cycle.

Diesel engines in cars are at best about 40% efficient on the road. A Combined Cycle Gas Turbine is 60%.

That's 666.25 g CO2/KWh useable output for a diesel v 334.67 g CO2/KWh useable output for the CCGT.

The CCGT then has at worst 10% transmission loses, 10% storage losses and 10% conversion losses putting the energy through the grid, into the battery and out through the engine. That's 459 g CO2/KWh useable into the road.

Obviously all these figures are variable on conditions, but the difference between 666 g CO2/KWh useable for a diesel and 459 g CO2/KWh useable for an electric car powered by a CCGT is too much for me to believe you are correct. ... unless I've missed something significant ... which I don't think I have, but I'm as fallible as the next human!

 

https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.php

 

Plus of course pollution isn't just CO2.  It's particulates (soot), unburned hydrocarbons, Nitrogen Oxides, Sulphur dioxides, carbon monoxide, the list goes on. 

Have you ever sat near the exhaust from a gas boiler?  It's seemingly just steam (and CO2) but it doesn't make you feel ill.  Compare that to sitting behind a running diesel for any period of time.  

[Happier diner]

16 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

I don't think that is right.

Diesel primary energy is 266.5 g CO2/KWh(PE) significantly higher than the 200.8 g CO2/KWh(PE) for natural gas.

You then have the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine/cycle.

Diesel engines in cars are at best about 40% efficient on the road. A Combined Cycle Gas Turbine is 60%.

That's 666.25 g CO2/KWh useable output for a diesel v 334.67 g CO2/KWh useable output for the CCGT.

The CCGT then has at worst 10% transmission loses, 10% storage losses and 10% conversion losses putting the energy through the grid, into the battery and out through the engine. That's 459 g CO2/KWh useable into the road.

Obviously all these figures are variable on conditions, but the difference between 666 g CO2/KWh useable for a diesel and 459 g CO2/KWh useable for an electric car powered by a CCGT is too much for me to believe you are correct. ... unless I've missed something significant ... which I don't think I have, but I'm as fallible as the next human!

 

https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.php

 

Its an interesting way of calculating it.

I was think more at an empirical level in that in terms of perfect combustion ( CH2+ 3O = H2O+CO2) the CCGT is more efficient as it does not produce as many nasties because they are turned into CO2 very effectively ( instead of say CO). Whereas a diesel engine isn't as good at achieving good combustion. 

Your losses for the transmission etc are very conservative and does it consider the efficiency of the electric motor in the car. 

Interesting stuff, but my main point was to point out that in terms of CO2 emissions it's not all great news for electric cars, like I say, unless the electricity comes from a technology that does not produce CO2

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Plus of course pollution isn't just CO2.  It's particulates (soot), unburned hydrocarbons, Nitrogen Oxides, Sulphur dioxides, carbon monoxide, the list goes on. 

Of course, I never said otherwise. 

[Cambon]

10 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

 

Plus of course pollution isn't just CO2.  It's particulates (soot), unburned hydrocarbons, Nitrogen Oxides, Sulphur dioxides, carbon monoxide, the list goes on. 

Have you ever sat near the exhaust from a gas boiler?  It's seemingly just steam (and CO2) but it doesn't make you feel ill.  Compare that to sitting behind a running diesel for any period of time.  

Er, sorry but gas home heating fumes will kill you if you breathe them in for any length of time. That is why the flue exit is above roof level, unlike oil.
 

Additionally, home heating is responsible for half of our emissions. The power station is responsible for a quarter, the other quarter is everything else. Yet the primary focus is on. Power generation and transportation, because that is where the money is. Not in home insulation, double glazing, alternative heating, etc. 

[A fool and his money.....]

12 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Taxpayer’s money? Not a penny of taxpayer’s money actually. And IOMPO makes profits that go back to Treasury every year. So you could hardly be more wrong.

 

Oh really? So all your buildings were funded from profits then?