TT 2023

[Happier diner]

8 minutes ago, John Wright said:

But only if the crash is the fault of the organisers…

'Fault' is very subjective of course. 

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

'Fault' is very subjective of course. 

Not really

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Not really

Depends if you mean in the view of the jury/Court or the individual. Some on here will blame IOM government for organising the event. 

Personally, I believe that if the organisers have taken reasonable steps to prevent an accident then it becomes the fault of the rider. 

In the case of the sidecars perhaps reasonable steps might be to brief the participants or maybe make that section permanently under yellow flag rules. 

That bit is down to the experts.

[John Wright]

31 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Depends if you mean in the view of the jury/Court or the individual. Some on here will blame IOM government for organising the event. 

Personally, I believe that if the organisers have taken reasonable steps to prevent an accident then it becomes the fault of the rider. 

In the case of the sidecars perhaps reasonable steps might be to brief the participants or maybe make that section permanently under yellow flag rules. 

That bit is down to the experts.

There won’t be a jury involved in that type of civil case.

The law is pretty clear.

Its the experts who will opine on whether the surface was laid and maintained in accordance with accepted norms and standards, but that will only be in the fewest marginal cases on the borderline between what is obviously ok and obviously not.

If a part of the course has to operate under permanent yellow flag rules that’s a tacit admission that it’s not safe to be raced on and is outside accepted norms & standards.

[Happier diner]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

There won’t be a jury involved in that type of civil case.

The law is pretty clear.

Its the experts who will opine on whether the surface was laid and maintained in accordance with accepted norms and standards, but that will only be in the fewest marginal cases on the borderline between what is obviously ok and obviously not.

If a part of the course has to operate under permanent yellow flag rules that’s a tacit admission that it’s not safe to be raced on and is outside accepted norms & standards.

Let's just hope then that there are no repeat deaths at that point. That seems to be the strategy. 

[cheesypeas]

Sponsors won't settle for having just the TT. I would think 2023 will be the last (if it isn't cancelled).

[Non-Believer]

"Hoping" does not seem to be a sound policy when people's lives are at stake in a sporting event, in today's society.

Maybe we could just admit that the speeds are now too high for the nature and certain sections of the course; both sidecars and solos.

[CallMeCurious]

The irony is the very thing that makes it unique, i.e. racing on public roads puts it in conflict with making the roads safer for the public who normally use it.

 

 

[kevster]

13 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

The irony is the very thing that makes it unique, i.e. racing on public roads puts it in conflict with making the roads safer for the public who normally use it.

 

 

It’s not unique in racing on public roads 

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, kevster said:

It’s not unique in racing on public roads 

It's got a lot closer to being unique, just this week.

Is it now unique in the British Isles?

[kevster]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

It's got a lot closer to being unique, just this week.

Is it now unique in the British Isles?

No

[Asthehills]

4 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

It's got a lot closer to being unique, just this week.

Is it now unique in the British Isles?

No

[Happier diner]

37 minutes ago, kevster said:

No

 

34 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

No

What else is there? Please don't say Olivers Mount.

[Ghost Ship]

5 hours ago, Happier diner said:

... If you organise an event the participants will sign away their rights to claim off you for their injuries. However you still have some duty of care and must take all reasonable steps to keep them safe. Obviously in motorcycle racing there is a high chance of injury and death and the participants have to accept this. Making it as safe as is reasonably practicable is a tough one to get your head around but something that insurers understand...

Eh?  Are you certain of that?

I'm fairly sure it would be impossible* for the organisers of a motor racing (or ANY) event in the UK to contractually avoid liability to anyone for personal injury or death - are you saying that it is possible in the Isle of Man?

It's because I'm assuming that the ACU (or whoever) can't avoid third party liability (including liability to the contestants) that I asked earlier whether compulsory third party insurance was a Manx legal requirement for the TT to be held.  Because if not, the organisers could decide to self-insure but would be taking the massive risk of leaving themselves open to potentially crippling third party liabilities that they could never cover.  (And if those liabilities couldn't be covered, there might be a lot of very unhappy third parties... )

*Cetainly since the Unfair Contrcat Terms Act 1977, and possibly earlier

[Ghost Ship]

5 hours ago, joebean said:

Contrary to some of the opinions here, I am grateful that the insurance companies have, for so long, been willing to provide cover for such risk-laden events. The Insurance industry is not a charity; it exists to make a profit by providing a service, the cost of which is based on an assessment of risk. I find it surprising that so many people still think that you can require competitors or spectators to sign away their rights. You can’t. Neither can you rely on injured parties to take the view that it’s the TT so they accept that it’s risky and they won’t claim. They do. So do competitors. The insurance premiums will rise in accordance with the risks and likely liabilities arising from the risk and the company will still expect a reasonable prospect of making a profit. If they don’t see that prospect, why would they insure? Would you? Many road racing “supporters” remain blinded by their enthusiasm for the sport. Most of the commercial concerns that are relied upon to make the event happen have to go into it with their eyes wide open. So do the organisers. 

+1

Thank you.  You've expressed my view on this far more eloquently than I have.

Insurance isn't a charity.  If you want to indulge in a highly risky and dangerous activity but don't want to risk (or can't afford) having to pay out any potential third party liabilities arising from that activity, you need to buy insurance.

Like you I'm more than a bit surprised that some people think that the competitiors "sign away their rights" to compensation when they sign up to compete*.  I wonder if people don't fully appreciate the need for appropriate insurance cover - at a price that insurers will determine based on risk. 

Insurance cover is just part of the inevitable cost of organising an event like the TT.  And like anything else, once the costs reach a certain level you need to decide if it's worth continuing.

I still find it difficult to believe that an insurer would deliberately price themselves out of the market in a failed attempt to increase profit rather than on a correct risk assessment.

 

*As in my previous post I'm assuming you can't "sign away your rights" in the IoM just as you can't in the UK.