TT 2023

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

Misadventure is usually the verdict here, but in the UK it seems to vary more between misadventure and accident. So you've not really been paying attention.

 

You could say the same about all dangerous sports though, including all forms of motor racing, not just motorcycle road racing. 

I don't agree with the idea either- humans always want to push the envelope, whether it's bike racing or rallying or ultra-marathons or skiing or paragliding or basejumping or whatever.

The most dangerous sport I have ever done is mountain bike racing. Cross Country. Wherever I have raced either here or abroad, they have marshal's at dangerous spots who actively encourage you to slow down. There are also often warning signs saying dangerous descent ahead. They did this on the end to end. 

[Two-lane]

16 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

There are also often warning signs saying dangerous descent ahead. They did this on the end to end. 

For the TT and all circuit racing, competitors are required to have completed practice laps - so they know the layout.

For the end-to-end mountain bike race I assume there were no practice laps, so warning signs were appropriate.

[Asthehills]

25 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

The most dangerous sport I have ever done is mountain bike racing. Cross Country. Wherever I have raced either here or abroad, they have marshal's at dangerous spots who actively encourage you to slow down. There are also often warning signs saying dangerous descent ahead. They did this on the end to end. 

And?  This is relevant to an event that takes place on the same layout of which there are thousands of hours of video footage, where the newcomers have been out on controlled laps as well as having coaching before the event starts and where you can learn the circuit via Sim racing how?

[Happier diner]

11 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

For the TT and all circuit racing, competitors are required to have completed practice laps - so they know the layout.

For the end-to-end mountain bike race I assume there were no practice laps, so warning signs were appropriate.

 

3 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

And?  This is relevant to an event that takes place on the same layout of which there are thousands of hours of video footage, where the newcomers have been out on controlled laps as well as having coaching before the event starts and where you can learn the circuit via Sim racing how?

That's true. I did think of that after. But I was pointing out that there are things you can do.

How about the idea of not allowing side cars to overtake at certain points on the course. 

It's widely reported that on one of the crashes there might have been a touch of outfits. 

Knowing that you could get through Bray and Ago's without being passed would make it safer. 

[Asthehills]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

 

That's true. I did think of that after. But I was pointing out that there are things you can do.

How about the idea of not allowing side cars to overtake at certain points on the course. 

It's widely reported that on one of the crashes there might have been a touch of outfits. 

Knowing that you could get through Bray and Ago's without being passed would make it safer. 

Nobody cares if they are passed or not, they don’t defend track position so that makes no sense.

The suggestion that one was caused by contact with another outfit only adds to the argument that two incidents at the same place is purely down to coincidence and can’t be legislated for.

I have no idea what your point is?

[wrighty]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

The English use of accident always confuses me.

Death by misadventure is the recorded manner of death for an accidental death caused by a risk taken voluntarily.

“Misadventure in English law, as recorded by coroners, and on death certificates, and associated documents, is a death that is primarily attributed to an accident that occurred due to a risk that was taken voluntarily. In contrast, when the manner of death is given as an accident, the coroner has determined that the decedent had taken no unreasonable willful risk”.

"Misadventure may be the right conclusion when a death arises from some deliberate human act which unexpectedly and unintentionally goes wrong."

Im not sure how someone who dies whilst racing can be described as not taking a wilful risk. The unreasonable is up for debate.

I always thought that ‘misadventure’ implied you were doing something (the coroner considered to be) stupid and it went wrong, whereas ‘accident’ is something like tripping over the dog at the top of the stairs. Or in the former you’re deliberately engaging in something known to be risky, like motorbike racing, and the latter some freak event happens while doing something innocuous. 
 

I’m probably wrong though - hadn’t looked up the dictionary definition of misadventure until this morning, and it’s not that different from accident. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

Nobody cares if they are passed or not, they don’t defend track position so that makes no sense.

The suggestion that one was caused by contact with another outfit only adds to the argument that two incidents at the same place is purely down to coincidence and can’t be legislated for.

I have no idea what your point is?

https://youtu.be/-ROvJtstemo

 

[Happier diner]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

https://youtu.be/-ROvJtstemo

 

Yes @Asthehills

Sidecars. Overtaking each other. Fighting for track position. But then you would know better wouldn't you. 

[HeliX]

9 hours ago, Asthehills said:

For anyone who hasn’t seen it this is a very well produced series that is being released to YouTube and TT plus each week.

Episode one from three weeks ago has half a million views just on YouTube

Episode for which gives a fans perspective is below

https://youtu.be/O66D5Y2J8jI

I've been watching these the last couple of weeks, actually rather impressed with the production quality.

[Ringy Rose]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Yes @Asthehills

Sidecars. Overtaking each other. Fighting for track position. But then you would know better wouldn't you. 

That's not fighting for position. That's Moly hanging back until it's safe to go past, with the other crew moving over to the left to let him go as soon as they can, before sensibly sitting in his slipstream for a bit.

You were saying?

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[Asthehills]

4 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

That's not fighting for position. That's Moly hanging back until it's safe to go past, with the other crew moving over to the left to let him go as soon as they can.

You were saying?

Thank you.

I didn’t want to say it because I would be accused of some sort of nonsense, but posting that clip on response to my comment shows a complete lack of understanding 

[Kopek]

59 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

That's not fighting for position. That's Moly hanging back until it's safe to go past, with the other crew moving over to the left to let him go as soon as they can, before sensibly sitting in his slipstream for a bit.

You were saying?

The original aurgument was that there is no need to defend? The video shows the two outfits passing and re passing each other but not a single passing to stay ahead? there is an amount of professional/experience in allowing the pass to take place due to 'slip streaming' but it does not seem to be 'Moly' hanging back? Nor the other crew hanging back? The final sequence shows the blue outfit pulling to the left to accept defeat at \creg ny Baa from slip streaming. What happens beyond this is not shown?

If you are trying to de-rail Happy Diners post, I would say you have failed?

[Ringy Rose]

13 hours ago, Kopek said:

but it does not seem to be 'Moly' hanging back? Nor the other crew hanging back? The final sequence shows the blue outfit pulling to the left to accept defeat at \creg ny Baa from slip streaming. What happens beyond this is not shown?

If you are trying to de-rail Happy Diners post, I would say you have failed?

Moly hung back at Black Hut as there's no room to pass, the other outfit pulled over after the Verandah then sat behind Moly over the mountain to enjoy the slipstream. They went to pass after Kate Cottage and Moly outbraked himself into the Creg. It looks exciting on the telly but it's not battling for position. 

The TT is a time trial, there's no point battling another competitor as you just slow yourself down.

Arguing this was "battling for position" shows a complete lack of understanding. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[TheTeapot]

So is it the taxpayer forking out almost a million quid on insurance?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/cost-of-insurance-for-islands-road-races-increases-by-18/

Edited February 25, 2023 by TheTeapot

[Non-Believer]

30 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

So is it the taxpayer forking out almost a million quid on insurance?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/cost-of-insurance-for-islands-road-races-increases-by-18/

It's hard how to see how it's anybody else? They were probably lucky, under the current times, to find a concern willing to do it? Presumably this will hope to be recouped from the visitor spend and perhaps increased entry fees for future events?