TT 2023

[Non-Believer]

Looking at sidecars entirely impartially and objectively; We have 3 wheeled racing vehicles which draw much of their chassis technology from short-circuit single seater car racing, are capable of speeds approaching 160mph and are inherently unstable on corners that in order to negotiate those corners require a passenger to transfer his/her weight around the vehicle.

That passenger, by dint of that requirement, is completely unsecured and unattached to the vehicle, save for one permanent handhold and two other handholds. That unsecured passenger is located crouched on a floor pan not much more than half a square metre in area.

Compare that now to the safety requirements for the drivers of single seater racing cars from which sidecars draw much of their chassis technology.

[Roxanne]

7 hours ago, wrighty said:

But it almost certainly will, just over 2 months from now. The only way your hope become reality is to follow the coroner’s suggestion and scrap the class. 

The class needs to be scrapped.  I'm a fan but even I said last year after the double crash that the chairs need to be stopped. The roads are repaired to make them faster and the chairs can't keep up with those changes.

If the coroner has said the class should go (and I wasn't aware of that so thank you) then we have to listen. This is a government sponsored race and they have to take responsibility, as far as possible for the safety of the riders. To ignore an obvious warning like this is a huge risk to the government, and worse, for the people who sign up for the races.

[TheTeapot]

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-risk-to-insurance-for-road-racing-for-foreseeable-future/

How is there 'no risk', when there quite obviously is?

[Non-Believer]

2 hours ago, Roxanne said:

The class needs to be scrapped.  I'm a fan but even I said last year after the double crash that the chairs need to be stopped. The roads are repaired to make them faster and the chairs can't keep up with those changes.

Or just introduce class changes to slow them down, as was done in 1990 when they were deemed to be too fast with a lap record that then stood at 108mph.

That option is not on the table of course because it might reduce the spectacle and damage spectator revenue. Much better to possibly continue the carnage and risk formal criticism of the class that might eventually lead to its total demise.

As a man who contacted Mr Phillips a couple of years back with a technical question involving the eligibility of some parts was told; "Don't worry about that, this is showbusiness".

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-risk-to-insurance-for-road-racing-for-foreseeable-future/

How is there 'no risk', when there quite obviously is?

Man in glass house doesn't throw stone...........

[Non-Believer]

11 hours ago, wrighty said:

But it almost certainly will, just over 2 months from now. The only way your hope become reality is to follow the coroner’s suggestion and scrap the class. 
 

Sorry to be blunt but given the form, a handful of racing deaths are virtually inevitable. 

As a simple statement of fact, in any other branch of motorsport, anywhere else, events leading to four deaths at the same location, over the same short period would lead to a massive overhaul if not questions over the future viability.

Many other "road" circuits have lost their status, if not total use, over far less, both car and motorcycle.

[2112]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

As a simple statement of fact, in any other branch of motorsport, anywhere else, events leading to four deaths at the same location, over the same short period would lead to a massive overhaul if not questions over the future viability.

Many other "road" circuits have lost their status, if not total use, over far less, both car and motorcycle.

 I don’t know if IOMG have insurance or if they self insure. Maybe the ACU pays insurance and IOMG provides a subsidy? 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

As a simple statement of fact, in any other branch of motorsport, anywhere else, events leading to four deaths at the same location, over the same short period would lead to a massive overhaul if not questions over the future viability.

Many other "road" circuits have lost their status, if not total use, over far less, both car and motorcycle.

Imola (not Isola) comes to mind. Senna's (and the German guy that everyone forgets - Ratzenburger) deaths finished it for that circuit. They put in the chicane at the Tamborello because F1 deemed it too dangerous but even with that it never has recovered. Our record is miles and miles worse but we never do anything and amazingly seem to get away with it....for now of course.

 

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

 I don’t know if IOMG have insurance or if they self insure. Maybe the ACU pays insurance and IOMG provides a subsidy? 

The taxpayer foots the bill for premiums of almost £1m a year. 

[HeliX]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Our record is miles and miles worse but we never do anything and amazingly seem to get away with it

Lots of reasons, but primarily that the TT isn't part of a race series that forms part of a race championship. Attendance is completely voluntary, and it stands on its own.

[Happier diner]

9 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Lots of reasons, but primarily that the TT isn't part of a race series that forms part of a race championship. Attendance is completely voluntary, and it stands on its own.

That's a rubbish reason. How about one you others. The owners of imola made changes to slow the speed at a dangerous section of the circuit. We only make the circuit faster. Cos we can and we don't give a flying f^^k about people's lives?

[HeliX]

5 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That's a rubbish reason. How about one you others. The owners of imola made changes to slow the speed at a dangerous section of the circuit. We only make the circuit faster. Cos we can and we don't give a flying f^^k about people's lives?

Eh? I think you're responding to something I didn't say. All I was doing was pointing out why it hasn't gone the way of Imola, it doesn't rely on being part of a racing series like Imola largely did. So there's no major source of funding to be withdrawn if the 3rd party is unhappy with the circuit.

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Eh? I think you're responding to something I didn't say. All I was doing was pointing out why it hasn't gone the way of Imola, it doesn't rely on being part of a racing series like Imola largely did. So there's no major source of funding to be withdrawn if the 3rd party is unhappy with the circuit.

Imola funded it themselves and they got dropped from the championship. You said there are lots of reasons we don't try to make the circuit safer. I was asking what those reasons are?

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

Imola funded it themselves and they got dropped from the championship. You said there are lots of reasons we don't try to make the circuit safer. I was asking what those reasons are?

No, I said there's lots of reasons that we get away with a much worse record without ending up losing out like other race circuits have done.

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, HeliX said:

No, I said there's lots of reasons that we get away with a much worse record without ending up losing out like other race circuits have done.

Understood. That makes more sense. Maybe someone will come along and tell us why nothing ever changes for the better. I know its not easy to make road circuits safer for bikes. However one thing you can do relatively easily is slow them down. That would instantly save lives