TT 2023

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

I quite agree, but if deaths at the London Marathon are inevitable (15 in 30 years I believe) then why are deaths at the TT any different?

Because those are deaths at the London Marathon not from it - the inevitable consequence of a very large gathering of people of varying ages, health etc.  There will be similar cases associated with the TT, especially given that about half the attendees are over-50, which are barely reported, just another death on holiday.  That's before you include the additional deaths from road accidents on open roads, something so regular that it's a matter for self-congratulation a year when there aren't any.

But what people are discussing is the deaths that arise from participating in the TT and how frequent they are - and that's before you consider the difference in number of participants, about 50,000 in the London Marathon, a few hundred at the TT.

[Banker]

7 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Because you are 800 (EIGHT HUNDRED) times less likely to die in the London Marathon than the TT - not your best comparison.

Who cares!!

[Roxanne]

54 minutes ago, Banker said:

Who cares!!

Helmut does. If you don’t then fine, make your case and debate it. ‘Who cares’ is shutting down debate and makes you look like someone who never had an opinion on the first place. In which case, why bother? 

[Ativa]

1 hour ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Because you are 800 (EIGHT HUNDRED) times less likely to die in the London Marathon than the TT - not your best comparison.

Tearing down Bray Hill on a bike is easily a thousand times more fun and exhilarating than trudging around the streets of London for 2 to 10 hours.

Its a fair trade off in my opinion and I know which risk I would rather take.

[Ativa]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Because those are deaths at the London Marathon not from it - the inevitable consequence of a very large gathering of people of varying ages, health etc.  There will be similar cases associated with the TT, especially given that about half the attendees are over-50, which are barely reported, just another death on holiday.  That's before you include the additional deaths from road accidents on open roads, something so regular that it's a matter for self-congratulation a year when there aren't any.

But what people are discussing is the deaths that arise from participating in the TT and how frequent they are - and that's before you consider the difference in number of participants, about 50,000 in the London Marathon, a few hundred at the TT.

What a load of crap.

You are saying these people who competed in the Marathon  and just happened to die either during or very shortly after would have dropped dead anyway without pushing their body way beyond what it is capable of? Pull the other one

[wrighty]

4 minutes ago, Ativa said:

 

You are saying these people who competed in the Marathon  and just happened to die either during or very shortly after would have dropped dead anyway without pushing their body way beyond what it is capable of? Pull the other one

They might have - we don't know.  What we can say with certainty is that not one of the dead TT racers from last year would have been decapitated had they not been riding in the TT.  The comparison between deaths that happen during a generally very safe event, and those that happen during the most dangerous organised motor racing event there is, is stupid.  Everest makes more sense.

[Ativa]

6 minutes ago, wrighty said:

They might have - we don't know.  What we can say with certainty is that not one of the dead TT racers from last year would have been decapitated had they not been riding in the TT.  The comparison between deaths that happen during a generally very safe event, and those that happen during the most dangerous organised motor racing event there is, is stupid.  Everest makes more sense.

The comparison was between events paid for by either government or sponsors.  Nothing to do with how dangerous an event is.

Where so you draw the line?  Which causes more long term issues for people’s health?  Rugby or the TT?  Boxing or the TT?

 

[Declan]

1 hour ago, Ativa said:

What a load of crap.

You are saying these people who competed in the Marathon  and just happened to die either during or very shortly after would have dropped dead anyway without pushing their body way beyond what it is capable of? Pull the other one

But there's also the benefits of exercise - how many marathon runners or rugby players would have died early without regular exercise?

It seems to me that rugby and running don't shrug off deaths as "he died doing what he loved" but actively seek to reduce the risk. 

1 hour ago, Ativa said:

Where so you draw the line?  Which causes more long term issues for people’s health?  Rugby or the TT?  Boxing or the TT?

 

That's the point  of this discussion - where do you draw the line? And that's a risk assessment. There has to be a point where we say no matter what we do this activity is too risky. 

[hissingsid]

The land slides on the mountain road are raising concern there has been another one today and civil engineers reckon there could be more .

[Ativa]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

t there's also the benefits of exercise - how many marathon runners or rugby players would have died early without regular exercise?

You could argue the same for TT, you have to be incredibly fit and mentally alert to hang on to a bike at those speeds for two laps, never mind six.

Ian Hutchinson very unfortunately had a stroke recently (while exercising/training) if he weren’t so for as a result of riding a motorcycle professionally his recovery could be much longer and the impact much greater.  

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

It seems to me that rugby and running don't shrug off deaths as "he died doing what he loved" but actively seek to reduce the risk

Rugby certainly has. And, like football, has only started to consider the effects of repeated bashes on the head now people are litigating. Before that, no fucks were given. Same when schoolboys died in scrums.

As for boxing, well.

1 hour ago, Declan said:

That's the point  of this discussion - where do you draw the line? And that's a risk assessment. There has to be a point where we say no matter what we do this activity is too risky. 

Do we?

As with so much in life, if one disagrees with the concept of riding a motorbike down a country lane at 150mph then don’t ride a motorbike down a country lane at 150mph. Beyond that, so what.

Boxing is a daft sport but if people want to punch each other in the face as a hobby then crack on. Same with the TT.

[wrighty]

Boxing is probably morally indefensible, but at least spectators don’t risk getting taken out by a wild left hook. The danger is all in the ring. 

[Ativa]

25 minutes ago, wrighty said:

Boxing is probably morally indefensible, but at least spectators don’t risk getting taken out by a wild left hook. The danger is all in the ring. 

Spectators don’t really risk getting taken out at the TT if they are sensible about where they put themselves.

Spectators weren’t far from getting taken out at the British F1 last year.

A couple of weeks ago there was an accident in practice for a GT3 race at a fully sanitised FIA circuit.

Had it happened on race day (or qualifying) there would have been multiple spectator deaths.

What about golf?  Should people be allowed to watch that?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/45734449

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-04/man-dies-after-being-struck-with-golf-ball/100048104

Edited May 2, 2023 by Ativa

[piebaps]

39 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Rugby certainly has. And, like football, has only started to consider the effects of repeated bashes on the head now people are litigating. Before that, no fucks were given. Same when schoolboys died in scrums.

That's not true.

The RFU concussion awareness program has been running since 2016 and the Head Injury Assessment (HIA) since 2012.

Schoolboys dying in scrums? How many? Accidents happen doing everything. Its comparing apples and oranges. 

[Steve_Christian]

Holy crap. You all still going? 😂😂😂