Ringy Rose Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 46 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Road improvements....there was a time when the course was recognised for being what it was and the riders rode to it. That meant rolling it off for known areas if necessary. Now riders expect to be able to ride flat out everywhere and anywhere not meeting that criteria is expected/has to be immediately addressed, Sulby Straight being the latest example. It's chicken and egg, the faster the riders go, the better they expect/need the course conditions to be. And the better those conditions, the faster they will go. So we should make things safer but we shouldn’t make the most important thing- the road surface- safer. I’m sure there’s logic in there somewhere. 47 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: is why we can't see any improvement in the fatality and injury rate despite belatedly tinkering with safety matters. But the bottom line is, we are killing 2+ people a year in the name of it, some in horrific conditions that are involving innocent bystanders If you argue that faster speeds are more dangerous then you also agree that a constant death rate is actually an improvement. As for bystanders, everybody watching knows the risk. Even the homeowners. The TT was here before them, don’t buy a house on Ago’s Leap if you don’t accept the fact someone might die in your garden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: So we should make things safer but we shouldn’t make the most important thing- the road surface- safer. I’m sure there’s logic in there somewhere. If you argue that faster speeds are more dangerous then you also agree that a constant death rate is actually an improvement. As for bystanders, everybody watching knows the risk. Even the homeowners. The TT was here before them, don’t buy a house on Ago’s Leap if you don’t accept the fact someone might die in your garden. The issue is that "making it safer" is masking the actual purpose of making it faster. When was the last time that there was a TT course modification or improvement that was likely or effective in slowing lap speeds? Where am I arguing that a constant death rate is an improvement? I am pointing out that no matter what safety points we try to address or improve, there is no improvement in the death (or life-changing injury) rate. If we do wish to address those points then I'd suggest that we are clearly not looking at the right areas. Edited May 23, 2023 by Non-Believer Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: The issue is that "making it safer" is masking the actual purpose of making it faster. When was the last time that there was a TT course modification or improvement that was likely or effective in slowing lap speeds? No, the purpose is making it safer. Wide roads and gentle curves are safer than narrow roads and tight corners. But they’re also faster. The biggest jumps in lap time in recent times came after the changes at Windy Corner and Brandish, both of which are much safer now than they were before. Previous lap speed jumps came after the mountain was straightened out, widened and walls removed, including at the Verandah in 1971. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Where am I arguing that a constant death rate is an improvement? I am pointing out that no matter what safety points we try to address or improve, there is no improvement in the death (or life-changing injury) rate. You say that 136mph laps are more dangerous than 120mph laps. But there has been no attendant increase in the fatality rate, despite the higher speed. So either it’s safer (otherwise the death rate would be rising in line with speed) or you’re wrong about the speed. Which is it? Edited May 23, 2023 by Ringy Rose 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 It’s notable that there are more restricted areas and safety improvements in terms of spectators. I agree there will always be a residual risk to riders due to the speeds and nature of a roads circuit, but the low number of spectator ‘incidents’ is testament to increased safety standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Anyone watch no room for error on ITV4 last night? I forgot & will watch on catch up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Banker said: Anyone watch no room for error on ITV4 last night? I forgot & will watch on catch up You've got Portillo to watch on the train to Pt Erin too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Banker said: Anyone watch no room for error on ITV4 last night? I forgot & will watch on catch up Yep. Excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Banker said: Anyone watch no room for error on ITV4 last night? I forgot & will watch on catch up It’s good, and there are four episodes this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: The issue is that "making it safer" is masking the actual purpose of making it faster. When was the last time that there was a TT course modification or improvement that was likely or effective in slowing lap speeds? when they installed the stop box at the entrance to the pits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Zarley said: How can you say it doesn't make a difference? If safety issues weren't being addressed and adjusted every year, the death rate would be going up in line with the increasing speeds, rather than remaining relatively static. That looks like a big difference to me. i think if you come off at 120mph or 150mph the survival rates won't be too different, what helps with the increased speed is the increase in vehicle handling, the bikes ability to corner and absorb the bumps and undulations, if it was just about pure speed you go to santapod. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Steve_Christian said: Oh and I can’t wait for my first TT burger 🍔 The biker's spit roast. I bet you can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, La Colombe said: The biker's spit roast. I bet you can't. Who doesn’t love a spit roast 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 51 minutes ago, The Phantom said: You've got Portillo to watch on the train to Pt Erin too! Saw that, very good but a bit short at 30 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Now there's a man who'd love a TT Burger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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